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ScienceHideout
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A good idea...
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It's amazing how we've all coalesced (pun very much intended) into an unofficial research team.
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NurdRage said this while trying to isolate potassium from KOH and a few other reactants. However, I just had an idea that will be specifically for
this. Who likes the idea of: AROchem (Amateur Research Organization (the chem means ‘for chemistry’)? It will be a separate message board with a
bunch of password protected forums, each for a certain research project. Leaders of research projects will be appointed after some members are
submitting applications for projects. A forum then will be created (and password protected) for that research project, and the leader will be made
forum moderator. After that, anyone can apply for the password to a research team (then joining that project) by PMing the leader of that project.
There will also be a section where the leaders can post documents and updates of their team’s progress. I will volunteer to make this board (I have
a bit of experience on making message boards) if you like the idea and you will help take part in it. Any new updates I have will be posted here. BTW:
I think polverone should be another administrator :-) .
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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plante1999
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I am for a such project.
I never asked for this.
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Megamarko94
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it is a good idea...i am in...
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LanthanumK
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Why do the forums need to be password protected? Sorry if I am asking the obvious.
hibernating...
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ScienceHideout
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That way, no one from the ___ group can spy on the ___ group. It is just a privacy thing.
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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hkparker
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Why do you need privacy? The way I see it knowledge should be free and restricting people's access to your work cannot have any positive impact on
anything. Now preventing people from posting who are not part of the project is more understandable but still, we seem to get quite a bit done here
don't we?
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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ScienceHideout
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The website is already up. BTW I will discuss this issue with the other admin and we might come to a conclusion on what to do. As of now, they are
protected, but we will give it some thought.
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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plante1999
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The issu will be that it will be restricted but with montly newsletter.
I never asked for this.
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bob800
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I like the enthusiasm, but I don't quite see why we would accomplish more on a new forum then on sciencemadness? There are already hundreds of very
intelligent chemists on SM, and it would take quite some time to get enough intelligent chemists on a brand new board. Why don't we just start threads
on SM for each project? To be honest, unless you incorporate something really special with the new board (like BromicAcid's idea for an amateur research grant), I don't really see why this would be more productive than Sciencemadness.
This is just my opinion. If you're excited to start a new board, go for it! I just think that it would take quite awhile to get anywhere close to
where SM is.
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hkparker
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Agree with bob800, in my opinion what we do on SM is more productive then locking down the project, especially for how long it will take people to get
involved. Post it here.
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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plante1999
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whe dont want AROchem be an different antity of SM but more like another part of it.
I never asked for this.
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hkparker
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Then talk to the site admins
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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Bot0nist
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Quote: Originally posted by bob800  | I like the enthusiasm, but I don't quite see why we would accomplish more on a new forum then on sciencemadness? There are already hundreds of very
intelligent chemists on SM, and it would take quite some time to get enough intelligent chemists on a brand new board. Why don't we just start threads
on SM for each project? To be honest, unless you incorporate something really special with the new board (like BromicAcid's idea for an amateur research grant), I don't really see why this would be more productive than Sciencemadness.
This is just my opinion. If you're excited to start a new board, go for it! I just think that it would take quite awhile to get anywhere close to
where SM is. |
| Quote: | hkparker
Agree with bob800, in my opinion what we do on SM is more productive then locking down the project, especially for how long it will take people to get
involved. Post it here. |
I am in agreement as well. I think you should build a forum if it is something your exited to do, but I think we can and do accomplish your end goals
on SM already. Look at the many examples like the potassium and sodium threads, the phosphorous thread, the chemical fire thread, ect., ect. We seem
to do a great job out in the open on SM already of teaming up and solving problems collectively. Sure, there are some minor issues like a few
irrelevant posts and a few immature posters, but it is a small price to pay for the exposure each project gets from the pantheon of talents from
members in all different fields that the whole of ScienceMadness has, IMHO.
[Edited on 25-6-2011 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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Lambda-Eyde
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I wholeheartedly support this idea and have been thinking about this for a while as well. But, I think that creating a whole new forum for this is the
wrong way to go. Here at Sciencemadness we already have hundreds of really sharp members, who know what they're doing - making a whole new forum just
for this niche idea won't help at all. Also, the forum you have now doesn't look very serious at all. Just throwing up a free message board and giving
everyone who wants their own, locked forum smells like 15-year-olds craving for internet power (and I know what I'm talking about).
However, I would like to see a subforum for this here at Sciencemadness. I envision a forum category where everyone can read topics, but only
moderators and project participants can post in them. The forum would need strict rules and guidelines to keep a certain level of seriousness.
Collecting data, doing detailed write-ups and sharing all of your experimental details would be essential to such a community project.
Let's say you'd like to start a research project - send a PM to Polverone, and he would evaluate it together with the rest of the staff. Several
factors would apply here: Your forum history, i.e. you wouldn't be allowed to start a project if you have been here for two weeks, have 20 posts and
don't know how to write basic english. But if you have proven to be a useful member, you're known in the community and have some chemistry knowledge -
then you have a go. 
Then there's also the project idea itself. Is there a need for the project, i.e. has it already been researched to death? Is it practically possible
to do in an amateur setting? Is it directly related to drugs or explosives? Do we want to publish that?
The potassium thread is probably the prime example: From an obscure patent the community found a way of producing potassium metal from readily
available materials! Now, what is left is to apply some scientific rigour to find the optimal conditions, such as reagent proportions, temperature,
solvent etc - and maybe even try to find a plausible mechanism!
Now, this is maybe just my mind getting all excited, but THINK of the possibilities! This is an unique oppurtunity to do real science! Peer
review, parallel experiments, controls etc! All by the community. How cool wouldn't it be to publish something for real: "A
Sciencemadness.org publication" 
Polverone, would you consider this at all? Or at least give us your thoughts.
This just in: 95,5 % of the world population lives outside the USA
Please drop by our IRC channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
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plante1999
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Like I have already said we dont want it be an different antity of SienceMadness we just want it be another part of it.
[Edited on 25-6-2011 by plante1999]
[Edited on 25-6-2011 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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ScienceHideout
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I started this to actually give experience of working on REAL research. In grad school, this is what you do. I started this to keep the scientific
method. On SM, we ask a question, and it's answered with a few experiments. What happened to making observations, stating a question, gathering
research, designing an experiment, collecting data, and stating a conclusion? On SM, we sometimes skip parts of that and go right to the next step.
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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LanthanumK
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Sciencemadness should not get as formal as a research journal. Anecdotes, one-time experiments, and hearsay are acceptable here. If it gets too
formal, many members will not be able to contribute any more because the conditions of writing a journal have a hard time being met by amateur
chemistry. Either using AROchem or starting a section called "Research" on the forum would be a viable solution to those who want to get really
serious with their chemical processes. I also think there should be a difference between questions and discussions. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16671 is a discussion. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16762 is a question. Many discussions can go in a research section or even in a subforum.
Questions can remain here.
I hope some of this makes sense.
hibernating...
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ScienceHideout
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| Quote: Originally posted by LanthanumK | Sciencemadness should not get as formal as a research journal. Anecdotes, one-time experiments, and hearsay are acceptable here. If it gets too
formal, many members will not be able to contribute any more because the conditions of writing a journal have a hard time being met by amateur
chemistry. Either using AROchem or starting a section called "Research" on the forum would be a viable solution to those who want to get really
serious with their chemical processes. I also think there should be a difference between questions and discussions. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16671 is a discussion. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16762 is a question. Many discussions can go in a research section or even in a subforum.
Questions can remain here.
I hope some of this makes sense. |
Thank you very much for clearing everything up. I couldn't have come up with a better way to explain it.
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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Nicodem
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| Quote: Originally posted by ScienceHideout | | I started this to actually give experience of working on REAL research. In grad school, this is what you do. I started this to keep the scientific
method. On SM, we ask a question, and it's answered with a few experiments. What happened to making observations, stating a question, gathering
research, designing an experiment, collecting data, and stating a conclusion? On SM, we sometimes skip parts of that and go right to the next step.
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Maybe it is a good idea if you start applying all that principles on yourself. I do not think that your demonstration of beliefs in the theory of spontaneous generation, which was proven wrong by Luis Pasteur in the 19th century are very exemplary of the scientific method. Your
recent thread on making uric acid from urea may appear like some banal trolling at first glance, but I'm quite sure it is merely an honest consequence of
non-scientific methods like mental lazinesses instead. Posting ideas without showing knowledge is fully acceptable, but posting ideas without
investing even one minute of literature search into it (and not even comparing molecular structures!), is not scientific at all.
I agree that there are ways to help increasing cooperation among the collective, but making a web of isolation chambers somehow does not sound a good
idea at all.
Promoting a mentoring system for the beginners would be a much more reliable approach, that would not only improve and speed up the learning process,
but also have a strong social and cohesive impact.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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Morgan
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I like materials science. I would visit such sites if I knew of them. THink of all you could learn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materials_science
[Edited on 25-6-2011 by Morgan]
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Arthur Dent
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Aah, the art of complicating things. Can't we just have ScienceMadness and work within its boundaries?
There is plenty of excellent information and research that can be done right here. Anyway, I strongly believe that the lack of input would make the
information of less value that what's on ScienceMadness right now. Variety is the spice of life, and frankly, as you pointed out, the example of the
metallic potassium thread is a good example of a lot of input from many sources offering a wealth of data on one subject. I doubt that this would have
evolved in such a manner if there were just a handful of researchers in an enclosed forum.
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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m1tanker78
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| Quote: | | Aah, the art of complicating things. Can't we just have ScienceMadness and work within its boundaries? |
LOL, (Robert).
It sounds a lot like a club to me. Not that it's bad (in general), I just don't see how a 'secret society' fits in with the theme of SM.org.
It even sounds a bit kewlish, IMHO.
On the plus side, you wouldn't have gotten a response like mine in a password-protected thread or forum. 
It may be a stretch but perhaps a whimsy-like sub forum where the thread starter has quasi-moderator power (only for his/her thread) would be more
suitable if you're hell-bent on controlling the responses or education level of responding members.
Tank
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ScienceHideout
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When the government researches things, do they just let the whole world into area 51 to see what's going on?
hey, if you are reading this, I can't U2U, but you are always welcome to send me an email!
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plante1999
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I have made a poll to see general opinion on SienceMadness for the privacity.
The tread : http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16792
I never asked for this.
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hkparker
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Are you planning on using classified documents, creating experimental aircraft, doing probably illegal experiements, or anything vital to the national
security of the US?
My YouTube Channel
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true if it be consistent with the laws of nature." -Michael Faraday
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