Optimus Synthesis
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Exotic Chlorate Impact-Sensitive Mixtures
Hello colleagues,
I’m currently working on impact-sensitive mixtures based on potassium chlorate for small arms primers. While the most common options tend to be
sulfur-based mixtures, such as FA-42/H-48 (sulfur + Sb₂S₃) or FA-70/M42 (thiocyanate), or even the infamous Armstrong’s mixture (which uses
phosphorus as a sensitizer), I’m exploring an alternative mixture that includes carbon or organic compounds but is entirely free of sulfur-based
components.
The inspiration for this approach comes from the claims made in patent US2035597A (https://patents.google.com/patent/US2035597A/en), which describes formulas based on potassium chlorate and potassium ferrocyanide, using glass
powder as a frictionator. A key advantage of these mixtures is that potassium ferrocyanide is easier to source than some of the more obscure sulfur
compounds or thiocyanates. Additionally, such mixtures are likely to be less corrosive than standard ones. Instead of producing the typical corrosive
potassium chloride residue, these mixtures yield potassium carbonate, which reduces corrosion potential. In contrast, mixtures with sulfur often leave
behind potassium chloride and sulfur compounds, which can actively promote corrosion of metal surfaces. While patents can be unreliable, these
principles seem logical to me.
To simplify things further, I’ve been investigating a variation of the “White Viper” mixtures based on potassium chlorate and potassium
ascorbate, as designed by Dr. Liptakov. Though adapting his protocol for primer loading is challenging, I experimented by mixing stoichiometric
amounts of potassium chlorate and potassium ascorbate with 20% glass powder. After wetting the mixture with water and 50% ethanol, I heated it in an
oven (ranging from 70 to 120°C) in an attempt to form a co-crystal that could potentially be more sensitive than the raw ingredients when simply
mixed dry.
White viper by Dr. Liptakov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMcIuQo0OC0
Red viper by Dr. Liptakov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqG3RGFQVc
Unfortunately, so far I’ve not been able to create a working ascorbate-based mixture. I encountered issues while synthesizing potassium ascorbate.
Directly adding solid potassium carbonate to a vitamin C solution, then slowly boiling out the water, resulted in a black solution that smelled like
caramel. After several attempts, I switched to dissolving vitamin C and potassium carbonate in ethanol and slowly adding water until the reaction
began, marked by fizzing from CO₂ evolution. Once that subsided, I added more ethanol to crash out the potassium ascorbate crystals. The crystals
appeared white while suspended in ethanol, but after decanting, triturating, washing with more ethanol, filtering and drying, they turned a light
yellow color.
Another alternative is the potassium ferrocyanide mixtures from the previously mentioned patent. Ferrocyanide is harder to obtain than vitamin C, but
it is known to form impact-sensitive mixtures with chlorates. Additionally, the potassium carbonate rich residue left behind from ferrocyanide
mixtures is more likely to be less corrosive than the one from hypothetical ascorbate mixtures, as they yield less potassium carbonate in relation to
the chloride. I haven’t spent much time experimenting with these mixtures yet, but I have tried them dry with no success. I plan to wet them soon in
an attempt to create co-crystals within the primer cup.
The goal for these mixtures is to use easily sourced materials that yield residues with alkali compounds like potassium carbonate, which would ideally
be less corrosive towards steel. I’m aiming for mixtures that are safe to mix when dry and can be activated inside the primer cup by simply adding
water and drying up in the oven.
Has anyone here had experience with such mixtures or have suggestions to offer in this direction? Any input is welcomed. Regards.
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chempyre235
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I don't specialize in energetics, so feel free to take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
Might you be able to alleviate the excess potassium with the ascorbate mixture by substituting with the ammonium cation in the ascorbate salt? I think
that could potentially result in a less corrosive residue. I don't know the thermal stability of ammonium ascorbate, though, so it may not take well
to baking. Ammonium carbonate is also much cheaper than potassium carbonate.
[Edited on 1/29/2025 by chempyre235]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Ammonium ascorbate is difficult to isolate as a powder. The mixture (impact-sensitive was investigated) is produced in situ at the same time as
chlorate and the conversion is ascorbic acid = ammonium ascorbate. Ammonium ascorbate does not provide high sensitivity as potassium ascorbate. Its
reactivity with KClO3 is insignificant. It is even a worse mixture than with sodium ascorbate. Ascorbic acid cannot be used in a mixture with KCLO3 at
all. It spontaneously ignites and explodes in an amount larger than a 50g ball. Within a few minutes. I recommend investigating the mixture with
ferricyanide. Another option is to use the EPH 20 mixture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBdQ1GY0zZU&t=110s
Or use only one part of it, i.e. Pb(H2PO2)2 but only as a sensitizer of about 5% - 10%. Be careful, mixing untested mixtures often leads to
accidents.....
Development of primarily - secondary substances: CHP (2015) neutral CHP and Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024) Diper
60 (2025)
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Optimus Synthesis
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Quote: Originally posted by chempyre235  | I don't specialize in energetics, so feel free to take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
Might you be able to alleviate the excess potassium with the ascorbate mixture by substituting with the ammonium cation in the ascorbate salt? I think
that could potentially result in a less corrosive residue. I don't know the thermal stability of ammonium ascorbate, though. Ammonium carbonate is
also much cheaper than potassium carbonate. |
The issue with ascorbate is that it's relatively low in potassium (which will turn into potassium carbonate), and that's what I want in the mixture.
This is important because it will help make the unavoidable residue of potassium chloride (from the potassium chlorate) less corrosive to the bore. As
of now, if it works, it works. Later on, we can assess whether it's less corrosive or not.
Adding ammonium ascorbate, apart from the fact that there’s little data on how water-attracting this compound could be (it will likely become a
slush due to humidity), doesn’t make much sense. This compound won’t leave any solid alkaline residue, which would help counteract the corrosive
nature of potassium chloride. Another drawback is that the ammonium ion will likely react with the copper in the brass typically used for primer cups.
Thanks anyways for your input!
| Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | Ammonium ascorbate is difficult to isolate as a powder. The mixture (impact-sensitive was investigated) is produced in situ at the same time as
chlorate and the conversion is ascorbic acid = ammonium ascorbate. Ammonium ascorbate does not provide high sensitivity as potassium ascorbate. Its
reactivity with KClO3 is insignificant. It is even a worse mixture than with sodium ascorbate. Ascorbic acid cannot be used in a mixture with KCLO3 at
all. It spontaneously ignites and explodes in an amount larger than a 50g ball. Within a few minutes. I recommend investigating the mixture with
ferricyanide. Another option is to use the EPH 20 mixture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBdQ1GY0zZU&t=110s
Or use only one part of it, i.e. Pb(H2PO2)2 but only as a sensitizer of about 5% - 10%. Be careful, mixing untested mixtures often leads to
accidents..... |
Thank you very much for your reply; I’ve been keeping an eye on your work. 
As you mentioned, chlorate + ascorbic acid is definitely off the table, as any acid combined with chlorate is a no-go.
A few minutes ago, I had a small sizzle from one of the primers I tested (K ascorbate), so I’ll continue working on this issue for now.
I’ve already made some EPH-20 primers, and they work really well. The only issue is that hypophosphorous acid salts aren’t easy to find for most
people, and even more difficult to make. The only drawback I’ve found with the EPH-20 formulation is that it’s too powerful, at least for the SS
primers I’m using (this could be due to the source of my NC). I’d like to try the original EP formula (40/40/20, LN/LH/Glass) to achieve something
a bit weaker for that application.
Thanks again for your reply and for all the great work you do!
[Edited on 29-1-2025 by Optimus Synthesis]
[Edited on 29-1-2025 by Optimus Synthesis]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Thanks.
Yes, using LH is last option of research. Mixture EPH 20 is too power. Poisonity od EPH 20 is huge. But is low corrosive. However can cause hole in
cup on side of firing pin. (experiences) Nitrocellulose decrease brisantion of EPH 20, same as bigger ammount of glass. But poisonity of entire
mixture is main problem further. In Lab Lip was developed mixture H48 + 5% LH. Called as Hyppo 48.
Ratios in part by weight: Sb2S3 30 + S 11 + KClO3 59 + Pb(H2PO2)2 5 . Compounds mix under water + IPA 1:1. Create wet grain 1x1 mm. Final drying on
surface 40C. On bottom cup pour carborundum black grain from abrasive paper, which is harder than glass. 0.5 - 1 mm. Second layer is 2 - 3 mm of
Hyppo 48, press 1 Kg, and 1 drop nitrocellulose 5%. Cup dry at 40 C by 30 minute. Only my reccomend for reliable cup filling.
Your task will be ferricyanides.....
Development of primarily - secondary substances: CHP (2015) neutral CHP and Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024) Diper
60 (2025)
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