anothername
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Dephosphorylation of Psilocybin In Vitro
Some psilocybe cubensis mushrooms make very tasty, hallucinogenic tea. Adding a bit of citric acid (maybe 1.33g/30ml, then diluted before drinking) to
the tea and letting it sit for 15-20 minutes converts the psilocybin into psilocin by dephosphorylation, which normally happens in the body.
That makes the effects hit faster, stronger, and wear off a little earlier. It also can reduce the likelihood of nausea and stomach pain. The problem
IMO is that the acid totally ruins the flavor of the tea.
I tried neutralizing it with baking soda but that tasted just as bad. I don't know of a simple way to remove an acid after it's been added to a
solution, and I suspect there isn't one.
Does anyone know a way I could convert the psilocybin to psilocin without changing the tea's flavor?
My only idea is that maybe I could use a much lower concentration of citric acid but let the tea sit for longer, like overnight or a few days even. I
just don't know how to calculate what the lowest effective concentration of citric acid would be, or how long it would need to sit for the reaction to
take place. I still think that would change the taste of the tea, but maybe not ruin it completely.
Any help with that, or better ideas, would be greatly appreciated!
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Pumukli
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I don't know much about the dephosphorylation process but adding 1,33 g citric acid to 30 ml "water" seems way too much. It is 44+ g/l!
In a soft drink the usual ratio is around 2-3 g/l citric acid, plus a few more grams can come from other acidic ingredients...
Neutralizing that much acid with sodium hydrogen carbonate yields a very unpleasantly salty broth... The salty liquid is nauseating for sure,
especially if warm.
Anyway, call me a heretic but in this part of the globe we do put some SUGAR
into the liquid we call "tea"...  I'm not sure if sugar + mushroom taste would
yield something bearable or just a good stomach cleansing solution but I'd surely miss sugar from a tea...
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anothername
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Most people use lemon juice instead of water with citric acid like I do. Lemon juice has 1.44g/fluid ounce of citric acid (47g/L), so I try to throw
in like 1.33-1.5g in 30ml, just to approximate the same thing.
It's far too acidic to drink without diluting after it soaks. Supposedly the pH of lemon juice is very close to the pH in the stomach, and that's why
it's used, but I suspect a lower concentration would still work, I just don't know enough about the chemistry behind what's happening.
FWIW I'm pretty sure there are multiple ways to dephosphorylate psilocybin, tho enzymes and acids are the only two I can remember.
It's easy enough to chug 60-90 mL of bad tasting tea, so I don't really care about masking the acid flavor with something like sugar. I mostly want to
be able to sip it and enjoy the original mushroom flavor.
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esquizete_electrolysis
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Quote: Originally posted by anothername  |
That makes the effects hit faster, stronger, and wear off a little earlier. It also can reduce the likelihood of nausea and stomach pain. The problem
IMO is that the acid totally ruins the flavor of the tea.
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To my knowledge, its not the dephosphorylation that reduces the nausea and stomach pain, but rather chitin. When making tea, the water dissolves the
psilocybin and psilocin and the chitin is removed when straining.
If you do want to really enjoy the flavor and primarly extract psilocin, try soaking some ground up mushrooms in 70% ethanol, filter it over vacuum,
and reduce the solution. You can get a decent tincture this way and a few drops of it into hot water would probably make a good tea. You could also
use a soxhlet with 70% ethanol and make it easy on yourself.
I cant find it at the moment, but this method is derived from a letter to Shulgin. Some individuals found that 70% ethanol was the best solvent for
extraction for the use of consumption.
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Dr.Bob
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I believe that Canada allows the sale of psilocin in at least some areas, not sure if other places do, but that might be another solution. Might be
true in Oregon as well.
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anothername
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Where I live it's legal to grow mushrooms and give/receive them for free, but not to sell them.
Making filtered tea always removes the chitin, but for me, fasting for 8 hours makes the biggest difference in nausea. If I skip breakfast and drink
tea with a bit of acid, I get a really fast, hard trip with barely any stomach discomfort and it wears off in plenty of time to eat a normal lunch.
I will try ethanol extraction. When you say "reduce the solution" you just mean boil it down a bit right? I assume to drive off most/all of the
ethanol.
I did some web searches and even asked chatgpt but all that comes back is the oxidation-reduction type of "reduction."
thanks!
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esquizete_electrolysis
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Yeah sorry, I should have been clearer in my language and said "reduce the volume of solution". I would allow it to evaporate in a Pyrex dish
overnight, and just concentrate it. If you remove too much of the ethanol, you'll get a tacky tar like solid, which is still good to consume, but I
imagine it would be difficult to dose for tea.
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anothername
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Thinking about this more and doing a couple web searches... it appears that ethanol extraction will pull both psilocybin and psilocin out of the dry
mushroom powder, but I don't see anything that says it will convert the psilocybin to psilocin.
So what benefit would I get by using ethanol instead of just water?
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Pumukli
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Why do you think that hydrolysing the phosphoric acid part off of the molecule will make a difference regarding stomach problems and nausea and such?
Do you have any solid reference or is it some sort of urban legend? My gut feeling it is.
During the supposed/probable acid hydrolysis other changes may also happen in the broth. Such changes may yield a more "stomach-friendly" concoction
in the end but the real "game changer" reaction may easily happen unnoticed! It is easy to hypothesize about the psylocibin -> psylocin conversion,
who knows, it may be relatively easy to test/follow the process on TLC if someone want to do it, but it does not prove anything.
In this case a simple alcohol extraction may be as effective as an acid hydrolysis. Because the alcohol may not extract the compound that is
responsible for the stomach problems and in the end the alcoholic extract may be as good as an acid hydrolysate reagarding general effects / side
effects profile.
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anothername
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I wondered if some other substance in the mushrooms was causing the nausea, but the only ones I could find mentioned anywhere as possible culprits
were chitin, which is filtered out when making tea, and the psilocybin/psilocin.
There are people I call the "buttshroomers" because they put mushroom tea into enema kits and take it that way. They claim there's something in the
tea that causes nausea only when taken orally. Whether that's a placebo effect is irrelevant because I do this for fun, and enemas don't sound like
fun.
There are many other suggestions for reducing nausea but I don't find any of them to be completely effective alone. Combining them works best, and
from what others say online it also seems to vary by person. I suspect that at least a few of the tips are just placebo.
Adding acid to the tea definitely changes the experience in ways a placebo could not. Maybe the faster onset is itself a placebo, but whatever the
explanation, it does work.
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Syn the Sizer
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| Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob | | I believe that Canada allows the sale of psilocin in at least some areas, not sure if other places do, but that might be another solution. Might be
true in Oregon as well. |
Technically psilocybin and psilocin are both still illegal under The Controlled Drugs and Substances act as Schedule III.
A few years back Canada allowed 28 people to grow harvest and use to test as a therapy, individuals were chosen from medical professionals and
terminally ill people. Though they are still technically illegal, police often don't charge for possession.
These days you can purchase them online from Cannabis or Mushroom shops anywhere in the country. They are shipped through Canada Post, Canada Post
cannot inspect mail that is shipped within Canada.
Edit:
I forgot to mention in British Columbia, small amounts of drugs for personal use have been decriminalized. Ottawa gave the province and exemption from
the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. They had a trial where you could legally consume drugs in public. It led to users smoking meth, injecting
heroin and such right on the sidewalk while people walked by, that trial has ended.
[Edited on 5-11-2024 by Syn the Sizer]
[Edited on 6-11-2024 by Syn the Sizer]
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