| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Plant Ash
Hello again Dear forum members.
Doing an experiment with the plant ash.
I have collected all the tabacco ash smoking it for 2 years.
Also made a lot of BBQs, burned like two massive bags of wood charcoal.
Boiled all the ash combined for few hours and filtered what dissolved in water. People are saying on internet that water soluble salts of plant ash is
mainly Potassium salts, also in theory there be contamination from tap water. Used like 10 liters of water to dissolve everything.
Ok, evaporated water soluble salts on my my LED lamp, hanging above my plants, down to formation of first crystals, now I want to leave it crystalize
slowly. Will drip pipette or two of HNO3 to the crystals and check if it is actually KNO3 by putting it in a freezer and cooling to 0C.
The question is how to separate ash that didn't dissolve in water, Potassium, Calcium and Magnesium into mono atomic salts? Not talking about the
traces.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I can dissolve it all in vinegar, drop everything out of the solution with KOH, add Phosphoric acid to the precipitate and make slow release
fertilizer, that can be mixed with the soil in a pots and be absorbed by the plant roots very very slowly with every watering because of it's low
solubility. Think it will be good for potatoes.
But I want to gain more knowledge of plant ash and separate it in to mono atomic salts, don't know how to, though.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
My grand parents used something similar to grow potatoes, they had two fields close to each other. One year potatoes was growing, then next year they
were growing outs on it where potatoes grew to absorb the rest of the fertilizer left in the soil. Swapping fields every year.
[Edited on 14-8-2023 by Romix]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I think that wood ash etc. has been used all over the world as a fertiliser.
Apply sparingly.
Soluble nutrients wash through quickly, others are slowly absorbed.
As for analysis and refining ..... good luck !
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Already doing it mate, have lots of it, all plants are fed, don't want to over do it.
|
|
|
RU_KLO
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 12-10-2022
Location: Argentina
Member Is Offline
|
|
hi, Im doing also some experiments with potash (wood ash filtered solution)
Mine came as yellow liquid.
Proceed from 350gr wood ash (some charcoal was also inside the wood ash. aprox 600 ml boiling water. Boiled for 10 min. Filtered.
Reduced (concentrated) to 100 ml aprox by boiling. Currently is waiting for cristalls (if any) . Will give a week (till next weekend) if not any
cristalls, then reduce till some precipitate is form, then cristallization again.
As it supposed to be mostly potassium carbonate, I will use is to precipitate other carbonates from an earth-water leaching for getting nitrates from
soil.
not tried but :
One form of purification is to add a sodium carbonate solution (maybe sodium bicarbonate will work), because "Most carbonate salts are insoluble in
water at standard temperature and pressure, with solubility constants of less than 1×10−8. Exceptions include lithium,sodium,
potassium, rubidium, caesium, and ammonium carbonates, as well as many uranium carbonates.
This will precipitate other carbonates from the potash, leaving sodium/potasium carbonate in solution.
Go SAFE, because stupidity and bad Luck exist.
|
|
|
fx-991ex
Hazard to Self
Posts: 99
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by RU_KLO  | hi, Im doing also some experiments with potash (wood ash filtered solution)
Mine came as yellow liquid.
Proceed from 350gr wood ash (some charcoal was also inside the wood ash. aprox 600 ml boiling water. Boiled for 10 min. Filtered.
Reduced (concentrated) to 100 ml aprox by boiling. Currently is waiting for cristalls (if any) . Will give a week (till next weekend) if not any
cristalls, then reduce till some precipitate is form, then cristallization again.
As it supposed to be mostly potassium carbonate, I will use is to precipitate other carbonates from an earth-water leaching for getting nitrates from
soil.
not tried but :
One form of purification is to add a sodium carbonate solution (maybe sodium bicarbonate will work), because "Most carbonate salts are insoluble in
water at standard temperature and pressure, with solubility constants of less than 1×10−8. Exceptions include lithium,sodium,
potassium, rubidium, caesium, and ammonium carbonates, as well as many uranium carbonates.
This will precipitate other carbonates from the potash, leaving sodium/potasium carbonate in solution.
|
You can heat bicarbonate in a pan to 200C it will decompose to the carbonate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGEc-pLXN4
[Edited on 15-8-2023 by fx-991ex]
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by RU_KLO | hi, Im doing also some experiments with potash (wood ash filtered solution)
Mine came as yellow liquid.
Proceed from 350gr wood ash (some charcoal was also inside the wood ash. aprox 600 ml boiling water. Boiled for 10 min. Filtered.
Reduced (concentrated) to 100 ml aprox by boiling. Currently is waiting for cristalls (if any) . Will give a week (till next weekend) if not any
cristalls, then reduce till some precipitate is form, then cristallization again.
As it supposed to be mostly potassium carbonate, I will use is to precipitate other carbonates from an earth-water leaching for getting nitrates from
soil.
not tried but :
One form of purification is to add a sodium carbonate solution (maybe sodium bicarbonate will work), because "Most carbonate salts are insoluble in
water at standard temperature and pressure, with solubility constants of less than 1×10−8. Exceptions include lithium,sodium,
potassium, rubidium, caesium, and ammonium carbonates, as well as many uranium carbonates.
This will precipitate other carbonates from the potash, leaving sodium/potasium carbonate in solution.
|
My solution is black, but I sill can see through it, so will be able to see the first crystals forming.
I'm separating big pieces of charcoal from ash using a massive stainless steel sieve, rubbing the ash against the sieve with a spoon in to 5 liter
beaker. Some still goes through.
350 gram of ash won't yield much, I made about an OZ of dry salts, weighed it before dissolving everything in to the last batch.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Any ideas of how to separate insoluble in water plant ash in to mono atomic salts? Don't be shy to share, if it sounds good, I'll try it out!
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Solvated traces of Iron cations in the plant ash can be precipitated with Ammonium Hydroxide solution, if any present in it, NH4OH highly available
and I can make a lot of it, how different elements in solvated ash will behave with it?
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Magnesium will precipitate as hydroxide too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDDGFuLziGo
Calcium ions not precipitating with NH4OH! Believing this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieeIo1pFIqg
So here is one way to separate one from another.
[Edited on 16-8-2023 by Romix]
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This table in the video above, won't work precipitating hydroxides with NH4OH, but will work with bases like NaOH and KOH.
As many of the cations forming water soluble complexes with it.
And what does the X means for the Silver ion?
[Edited on 16-8-2023 by Romix]
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Might get a liter or so of good concentration Ammonium Hydroxide for this experiment, to lazy to concentrate urine by freezing, evaporating it and
condensing, Paliperidone takes all my energy away! Need to watch the process all way through distilling it, lifting the reactor every time it foams,
and preventing it from clogging the condenser. Although it might be easier in my new 5 liter quickfit set up.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Romix | This table in the video above, won't work precipitating hydroxides with NH4OH, but will work with bases like NaOH and KOH.
As many of the cations forming water soluble complexes with it.
And what does the X means for the Silver ion?
[Edited on 16-8-2023 by Romix] |
Tin and Lead will form complexes with KOH and NaOH, but I can't see them in the table.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And what does sS means for Calcium in a table?
It's hydroxide is insoluble in water, but soluble enough to make the PH very basic.
|
|
|
averageaussie
Hazard to Self
Posts: 87
Registered: 30-4-2023
Location: Right behind you
Member Is Offline
Mood: school 
|
|
Silver hydroxide, when produced through mixing silver nitrate and an alkali hydroxide, quickly decomposes into silver(I) oxide, because of the
favourable energetics of the following reaction;
2 AgOH => Ag2O + H2O (pK = 2.875)
So it really doesn't exist for long enough to measure, and any hydroxide that isn't immediately decomposed is in such small amounts that it is not
noticable.
|
|
|
averageaussie
Hazard to Self
Posts: 87
Registered: 30-4-2023
Location: Right behind you
Member Is Offline
Mood: school
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Romix | And what does sS means for Calcium in a table?
It's hydroxide is insoluble in water, but soluble enough to make the PH very basic. |
Slightly soluble if I had to guess, having ~ 1.7 g/L at 20c.
also interesting is that its solubility is retrograde, the solubility decreases as temperature goes up.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by averageaussie |
Silver hydroxide, when produced through mixing silver nitrate and an alkali hydroxide, quickly decomposes into silver(I) oxide, because of the
favourable energetics of the following reaction;
2 AgOH => Ag2O + H2O (pK = 2.875)
So it really doesn't exist for long enough to measure, and any hydroxide that isn't immediately decomposed is in such small amounts that it is not
noticable. |
Thank you for explanation!
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
You might like to pause and collect your thoughts, you have a large number of one line posts, it will make it cumbersome for people to respond.
| Quote: Originally posted by Romix | And what does sS means for Calcium in a table?
It's hydroxide is insoluble in water, but soluble enough to make the PH very basic. |
sS likely stands for slightly soluble, which calcium hydroxide is in water 1.73 g/L @ 20 C.
| Quote: Originally posted by Romix | | Any ideas of how to separate insoluble in water plant ash in to mono atomic salts? Don't be shy to share, if it sounds good, I'll try it out!
|
A soluble perchlorate salt or perchloric acid may help you to separate potassium from sodium, once you have removed everything else with hydroxides.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Can Ammonium Acetate be used as a plant food, will plants like it, any one tried it?
|
|
|
averageaussie
Hazard to Self
Posts: 87
Registered: 30-4-2023
Location: Right behind you
Member Is Offline
Mood: school
|
|
[/rquote]
Tin and Lead will form complexes with KOH and NaOH, but I can't see them in the table.[/rquote]
this table originally comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_chart
and it has since been updated. if you want what looks to be a pretty good solubility chart, here seems decent. there is a key at the bottom of the
page, explaining parameters.
[Edited on 16-8-2023 by averageaussie]
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I've overdosed my fig tree lately, been making Calcium Acetate, after washing it's crystals with ice cold water on a filter, left the solution for too
long and a lot of black mold formed in it. Solution was all black in mold. Decided to feed it to my fig tree, tree didn't like it. Either Calcium
Acetate OD or tree didn't like the mold. Fed it Calcium Acetate before in small portions, tree was loving it, lifting the leaves to the sky and
growing.
[Edited on 16-8-2023 by Romix]
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Russian WIKI says that Ammonium Acetate is a preservative, might help with mold if my tree may not get well.
|
|
|
Romix
Hazard to Others (Literally)
Posts: 483
Registered: 19-6-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Or preservatives just preventing the bioactivity but not stopping it?
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4580
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P | | You might like to pause and collect your thoughts, you have a large number of one line posts, it will make it cumbersome for people to
respond. |
(emphasis mine)
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
