Junk_Enginerd
Hazard to Others
Posts: 251
Registered: 26-5-2019
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
|
|
Why can't I make soft clay by mixing with oil rather than water?
I don't quite understand the reason. Dry clay, mixed with water turns into moist and malleable clay. No surprises there... But dry clay, mixed with
oil, does not. Best case it turns into a gritty slurry, worst case it just stays a hard lump that is now wet with oil. It seems it is not
dispersing/getting suspended properly. But why? Can something be added to encourage it?
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4332
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Clays absorb water because they contain a bunch of ionic silicates. Ions don't attract non-polar oil molecules with the same enthusiasm.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
CharlieA
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 11-8-2015
Location: Missouri, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@Draconic: A bit anthropomorphic, but right on!
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4332
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
I explain hydration to my students with an enactment of water molecules saying, "Come play with us!" to the ions. Anthropomorphizing chemicals is a
long-standing habit.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Σldritch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 309
Registered: 22-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It is called plasteline though I don't know exactly what it contains. Maybe some surfactant, say, stearic acid or whatever.
|
|
|
Junk_Enginerd
Hazard to Others
Posts: 251
Registered: 26-5-2019
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ohhh okay. I thought clay was simply tiny particles of sand basically. That makes sense. But that sort of implies that if you "wash" clay enough,
it'll lose its water absorbing properties. Do you know whether that's the case?
Also anthropomorphising chemistry is definitely my jam. It's not wrong, and it makes it much easier to understand too.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4332
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
No, washing clay won't make it lose it's water-absorbing qualities. Sand isn't SiO2 molecules, but a polymer with that formula. Adding water
hydrates it, essentially turning one of the Os into two OHs. These are very hydrophilic.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Junk_Enginerd
Hazard to Others
Posts: 251
Registered: 26-5-2019
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ah. It gets wet on a molecular level. Nothing water soluble needed, just easily transitioning between hydroxides and oxides. Welp, that's all I wanted
to know. Thanks!
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5126
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You may find this interesting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticine
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4580
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Not to mention lots of insoluble calcium, magnesium, iron, etc silicates that are also present and provide ions for water to "hold on" to.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
It is possible to modify clay with quaternary ammonium salts and make oil based clay. The following link has a procedure. It uses a decanoaic
tri-methyl ammonium bromide and a non-ioninc surfacant. The ingredients do not seem too specific and other should work.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01691...
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Ps. Lysol laundry sanitizer is the perfect product for this application.
It contains both non-ionic surfactants and the quantenary ammonium salt. Mix with bentonite clay, allow the water to evaporate. Powder and add oil
should be all that is necessary according to the paper. After adding oil you need to mull the play to get the best consistency.
|
|
|
Lionel Spanner
Hazard to Others
Posts: 168
Registered: 14-12-2021
Location: near Barnsley, UK
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quaternium hectorites and bentonites are also commercially available pre-dispersed in suitable solvents, for cosmetic and industrial use. Elementis
sell them under the trade name Bentone, but there are many generic versions available.
|
|
|
CharlieA
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 11-8-2015
Location: Missouri, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If I implied that there was something wrong with anthropomorphizing the behavior of chemical entities, I apologize. Whatever helps one to understand
the behavior of invisible particles, especially in predicting their behavior is a good thing. I always described chemistry to my students as an
"obscure" science in that it wasn't obvious why chemical "things" were doing what they were doing. My example: you mix two clear solutions together
and get a red solution. You see what happened, but HOW, on the atomic/ionic/molecular level, did it happen?
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4332
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by CharlieA  | | If I implied that there was something wrong with anthropomorphizing the behavior of chemical entities, I apologize. Whatever helps one to understand
the behavior of invisible particles, especially in predicting their behavior is a good thing. I always described chemistry to my students as an
"obscure" science in that it wasn't obvious why chemical "things" were doing what they were doing. My example: you mix two clear solutions together
and get a red solution. You see what happened, but HOW, on the atomic/ionic/molecular level, did it happen? |
That implication never crossed my mind. No apologies needed.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Junk_Enginerd
Hazard to Others
Posts: 251
Registered: 26-5-2019
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
|
|
I can't imagine ever finding such chemicals, but "quaternary ammonium salts" led me down a trail that ended at... Laundry softener.
That I do have! Maybe I'll buy a non scented one before trying it though, lol
|
|
|
Junk_Enginerd
Hazard to Others
Posts: 251
Registered: 26-5-2019
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
|
|
Well I'll be damned. Laundry softener did it. Soft supple clay, using paraffin oil as base. I did NOT, however, buy an unscented variety first, so it
stinks. Still, mission accomplished!
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
