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Author: Subject: Selectively reacting methanol over ethanol?
Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 13-6-2020 at 21:21
Selectively reacting methanol over ethanol?


so i just got onto an idea as in making ethyl salicylate, and i was wondering if i used just a small amount of salicylic acid, would it then decide to react with methanol first and then leave the ethanol behind? im using denatured alcohol which contains maybe 5% methanol



~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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UC235
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[*] posted on 13-6-2020 at 21:30


No particular reason to think that methanol would have any substantial preference for reaction over ethanol, just whichever collision happens first. 5% methanol would be 5% methyl salicylate in the product.
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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 13-6-2020 at 21:46


aha, i guess organic chemistry really just does suck all the way through.



~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 14-6-2020 at 02:40


Being able to design molecules and selectively make those with the right precursors indeed sucks....
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brubei
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[*] posted on 14-6-2020 at 05:18


molecular sieve 3A absorb water and methanol. (4A absorb ethanol and won't be efficient)





I'm French so excuse my language
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 14-6-2020 at 05:26


I'm pretty sure 3A sieves don't absorp methanol, that would make moonshiner's life very easy...
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Fantasma4500
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[*] posted on 20-6-2020 at 10:53


i guess anyone interested in truly seperating methanol from ethanol could pull an experiment on that, totally oblivious to specifications of 3A and particle size of methanol and visocity and all that it should be possible to do like that, thanks for the idea.



~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
http://www.trimen.pl/witek/calculators/stezenia.html
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Dr.Bob
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[*] posted on 26-6-2020 at 17:15


Not sure for simple ester formation, but for some reactions, like methoxide verse ethoxide, the methoxide's smaller size provides almost 10 faster reaction rate, so traces of ethanol in methanol cause little, but traces of methanol can react much faster than ethanol, so 5% of methanol (with an excess of overall alcohol mix) could cause as much as 50% of the methoxide product. This is seen in biofuel, where making ethyl esters from oils is much slower than methyl esters, so as to make using ethanol very tough for real production. And since ethanol is a relatively much larger molecule than methanol, it takes more volume of ethanol than methanol for the same molar amount, thus limiting the maximum acheivable concentration of ethanol compared to methanol. But even for simple esters, I am pretty confiudent than ethanol is somewhat slower reacting than methanol. But once you go to longer chains, the differnce is much smaller, unless you add branching, like isopropanol or t-butanol, both of which would be even slower reacting then ethanol.
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mackolol
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[*] posted on 27-6-2020 at 01:53


Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
aha, i guess organic chemistry really just does suck all the way through.

If you want to use mixture consisting 5% of methanol over pure methanol, It's not surprise to me that it won't work. It's the same as if you'd want to precipitate sulfuric acid to calcium salt with tap water. It's only that you suck.

Damn man what do you think... If you want to perform a synthesis, good reagents are essential, don't be surprised when sometime a reagent doesn't work because it is not at least 99% purity.

Organic chemistry is not some crafting in PC games, it is something way beyond, I'm now dealing with synthesis that was working every time for me and now without any clear reason it fucks up all the time and it happened from day to day. So be prepared for this if you really want to achieve anything in your lab...

[Edited on 27-6-2020 by mackolol]
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