Grndpndr58
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 8-5-2019
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Cautionary tale
I haven't posted in some time satisfied to watch as new and old members found their niche and matured into some very proficient chemists,Im In awe of
your progress as a whole.I am the same member formerly known as grndpndr,Surreptitiously I forgot my password so rather than post ignorance I've come
to recognize my shortcomings.
Anyway the serious side of this post has to do with a seemingly innocuous experiment synthesising sodium chlorate (for reactive tgts).It was extremely
cold that evening so I had some insulation around my cell containing approx 3l of electro!yte with a mod. Computer power source supplying 5v-18
amps.the electrolyte required topping off along w/pH adjustment. So I added requisite electrolyte then undiluted hydrochloric acid.There was as far as
reconstruct a bloom
Of Im guessing concentrate chlorine gas.I was instantly overcome unable to breathe making itfromgarage to house on instinct alone knowing id die in
the garage before my wife became concerned.Like many of you I can spend hours in my shop even in bitter cold temps.10 days of intensive care and life
support intubated along with
paralytics /high doses fentanyl Drs/terminally I'll wife unaware if I would succumb
or worse suffer brain damage.Obviously I made it but it was the toughest fight to survive I've had the misfortune to experience.I have recovered
well,no longer requiring 02 just sciatic nerve pain due roto rootering bloodclots,.No evident?brain damage I became my own worst enemy.Complacency. I had all the PPE to include respirator with proper new filters,safety
goggles,chemical elbow gloves and labcoat all sitting unused.A few seconds of complacency perhaps cocky? I've done this many times BS:
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Grndpndr58
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 8-5-2019
Member Is Offline
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Cautionary tale
I haven't posted in some time satisfied to watch as new and old members found their niche and matured into some very proficient chemists,Im In awe of
your progress as a whole.I am the same member formerly known as grndpndr,Surreptitiously I forgot my password so rather than post ignorance I've come
to recognize my shortcomings.
Anyway the serious side of this post has to do with a seemingly innocuous experiment synthesising sodium chlorate (for reactive tgts).It was extremely
cold that evening so I had some insulation around my cell containing approx 3l of electro!yte with a mod. Computer power source supplying 5v-18
amps.the electrolyte required topping off along w/pH adjustment. So I added requisite electrolyte then undiluted hydrochloric acid.There was as far as
reconstruct a bloom
Of Im guessing concentrate chlorine gas.I was instantly overcome unable to breathe making itfromgarage to house on instinct alone knowing id die in
the garage before my wife became concerned.Like many of you I can spend hours in my shop even in bitter cold temps.10 days of intensive care and life
support intubated along with
paralytics /high doses fentanyl Drs/terminally I'll wife unaware if I would succumb
or worse suffer brain damage.Obviously I made it but it was the toughest fight to survive I've had the misfortune to experience.I have recovered
well,no longer requiring 02 just sciatic nerve pain due roto rootering bloodclots,.No evident?brain damage I became my own worst enemy.Complacency. I had all the PPE to include respirator with proper new filters,safety
goggles,chemical elbow gloves and labcoat all sitting unused.A few seconds of complacency perhaps cocky? I've done this many times BS:Hello to all,
old familiar members and newer members please be as safe as youcan possibly make your experiments and remember even the most seemingly harmless
experiment can and will jump up and bite your ass!
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Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1389
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
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3 liter cell ? And into cell was pour hydrochloric acid 32% ? Cell water was warm? How much grams of acid was poured? Inside closed garage was
manipulated with this? Any way, is it pretty interesting message. Simple chemical operation, but with fatal aftermath. If I undertand. Hydrogen
chloride caused lung edema I guess? Or all gases together? Chlorine, oxichlorine and hydrogen chloride? Horror experience. The God bless you for this
info.... ...LL
PS: Yesterday I finished conversion in cell 700ml. NaCl = NaClO3. In garage. Without adding HCl. The cell have silicone tube output - outdoor.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
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Why do you double post?
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hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
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Mood: Pulverulescent!
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Wow grndpndr, it's been nearly 7 yrs ─ you're most welcome back!
Sure, shit happens, but at least that's all behind you now.
I used to add very small quantities of HCL to a working cell myself and even that always produced a sudden eye-watering mist which would
kinda drive me back but with lesser effect on the lungs...
My shed was roomy and airy, so there was that difference, too.
BTW, as to your old account, you could just ask Polverone for a new PW for your old account to feel more 'back in the fold'?
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Grndpndr58
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 8-5-2019
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LL; I did no measure in ml, previous experience not a good indicator!!indicated a little less than a capfull?Guesstimate 5 ml and yes the cell
electro?yte was unusually cold and I suspect the small outbuilding door was shut!!! I was using bundle graphite gouging rods treated wlinseed oil and
a
2 wide x 1/4 thich as cathode k dichromate cut back from previous runs to 1 gr liter.Found it very difficult to ridthe chlorate of the yellowish tinge
imparted by recommended amount.I don't believe that was a contributor to the near fatal error.Again complacency-familiarity! Most basic safety issues
ignoredth ,1 like the proverbial snake jumped up and bit me on the ass!p
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Grndpndr58
Harmless
Posts: 5
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I very much appreciate the sentiment Hissingnoise, thànkyou!
I've been kinda overwhelmed by my wifes illness but I've seen several papers online by Kunzel and co.One illustrates watergells sensitized by ETN .
25% ETN watergell
Sensitizer with a 7 gram Semtex booster exceeded 6000ms w/o confinement.
A second paper compared physical. Property's of peer? Explosives,PETN/RDX/HG Fulminate to demonstrate sensitivity or rather lack there off of the cast
ETN
I can name the papers etc but I'm unable topostthem ifinterested
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fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
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Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  | | BTW, as to your old account, you could just ask Polverone for a new PW for your old account to feel more 'back in the fold'? |
Isnt Polv still MIA (missing in action)?
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Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1389
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
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Your last sentences was translated to purely Englis language:
LL; I did no measured in ml. Previous experience not a good indicator! Indicated a little less than the full the cap? I gues estimate 5 ml. Yes the
cell electro? It was unusually cold and I have suspect, that the small outbuilding door was shut! I was using bundle graphite gouging rods treated
wlinseed oil. And 2 wide x 1/4 inch as cathode. Dichromate cut back from previous runs to 1g on one liter. Found it very difficult to ridthe chlorate
of the yellowish tinge imparted by recommended amount. I don't believe that was a contributor to the near fatal error. Again complacency-familiarity!
Most basic safety was issues ignored. Like the proverbialed snake jumped up and bit me on the ass!
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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j_sum1
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Threads Merged
8-5-2019 at 16:25 |
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6320
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
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That is a bit of a scare there. Easy to do though. Glad that you are on the up.
I took the liberty of merging the two threads. bay as well have the whole discussion in one place. Apologies if this temporarily upsets the
linearity.
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markx
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 7-8-2003
Location: Northern kingdom
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Mood: Very Jolly
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I've had a very similar event happening under my watch. Fortunately the cell was outside and posed thus less of a risk on my wellbeing. But it teached
me that undiluted hydrochloric acid ( or perhaps the sudden swing in pH) does or at least may induce a violent runaway reaction in a chlorate cell
that leads to huge amounts of chlorine gas being released and the chlorate content being destroyed totally within a few seconds.
I do not remember the circumstances clearly as it happened many years ago, but I guess out of laziness I tried to compensate the pH balance in a cell
that already had a healthy KClO3 layer at the bottom and used undiluted HCl solution for the purpose (30-35% I guess). It was a technical
grade acid containing iron and other impurities that impart a greenish coloration to the liquid. I do not know if that makes a difference, but the
contaminants might have a catalytic effect. The addition was of similar magnitude, about 5ml. The 5L cell that was made from a PET water container
was outside, sitting partly in a little creek for cooling purposes and it was late autumn, so rather chilly weather. Immediately upon the addition of
the acid the cell burst into a violent runaway reaction that flowed part of the electrolyte over the top and a huge bloom of chlorine gas was
released. After the vessel calmed down and I dared to take a closer look it was evident that there was no chlorate left in the cell. It had decomposed
completely within a timeframe of about ten seconds. I was lucky and suffered no harm except a scare and the loss of the yield, but learned a valuable
lesson.
In my later career I spent almost a decade as a techologist/chemical engineer in a chlorination pilot plant, witnessing many leaks, reactor brakedowns
and other events that released the deadly gas into production facilities and labs. Although I also took a breath of it here and there, it never seemed
to cause any serious damage to me, but I guess I was lucky and the gas was sufficiently diluted by the powerful ventilation systems. Nevertheless it
was a daily dangerous struggle to keep the corrosive poison from escaping to places it was not meant to go. Looking back it was probably the closest
and longest experience resembling chemical warfare of the WWI era that one in my part of the world can come into contact with. These were interesting
times....
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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Grndpndr58
Harmless
Posts: 5
Registered: 8-5-2019
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Marxk.your experience hwith your tcell could e taken from my reconstruction of what I
expected happended ,toss in the fact I have modern ately severe COPOD was using no supplemental 02 @ time and being very cold also exacerbated
problems w/
COPD! No PPE = perifect storm
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