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cyanureeves
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bitter almonds?
what the hell does bitter almonds smell like? ive never encountered a bitter almond.i have encountered a weird new plastic raincoat smell when i heat
potassium ferrocyanide and sodium carbonate or koh. is that bitter almond?its kind of pleasant.bitter almond sounds like a grudge or something. in our
day arent there more familiar compounds to describe this scent?in 2010 wohler or scheele probably wouldnt use the word bitter almond.
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Satan
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Like benzaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
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Melgar
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I always thought benzaldehyde smelled like maraschino cherries, and I've never sniffed hydrogen cyanide to know what it smells like. Bitter almonds
are a kind of almond that most people probably don't have much experience with, but their oil is mostly benzaldehyde. So I guess you could say bitter
almonds kind of smell like maraschino cherries.
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cyanureeves
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grudgy almonds?
maraschino cherries.thats close enough.well then i guess im smelling some sort of cn. .no wonder it makes a good gold plating solution.cant get it to
do a thing with copper though.thanks for not being a chicken little.
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DDTea
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I had this same question a few years ago and wanted to know what cyanide smells like. So I put a small amount of potassium ferricyanide and sulfuric
acid into a test tube and shook it up. I took a whiff of the resulting blue fumes.
The only way I can describe it as almonds...it smells like they taste.
"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in
which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
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mewrox99
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Isn't that dangerous
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DDTea
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Yes, but I used to be invincible. 
"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in
which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Sniffing small amounts of hydrogen cyanide is safe.
When I was doing A level chemistry a jar of potassium cyanide was passed around the class so we could have a cautious sniff.
The ability to smell cyanide is a genetic trait and I would advise any aspiring chemist to have a cautious sniff to see if they have the smelling
gene.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_cyanide
Many years ago a couple of women bought a packet of bitter almonds from a health food store and ate them on the way home. They both died of cyanide
poisoning!
Bitter almonds are used in all sorts of cooking at very low levels, marzipan is a good example.
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Panache
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bitter almonds are almonds whose lovers have broken up with them via txt message.
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peach
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You can buy bitter almond oil from places like Holland & Barratt I think, it's on eBay and in all the essential oil shops.
In the UK, there is also a shrub called English Laurel, Cherry Laurel or False Laurel or, the preferred embodiment, The Bastard Laurel. It's planted
as a boarder pretty much everywhere. All around uni's, hospitals, and so on.
You can easily identify it by the oval shaped, thick, glossy lime green leaves. If you snap one, you'll instantly detect the strong smell of marzipan,
as it's loaded with benzaldehyde and cyanogens. It smells REALLY nice actually, like a sweet shop.
There are cyanogens in there to discourage moronic cows and humans from chewing on it. They won't kill you too easily, but they don't make you feel
very nice either.
Oh, it's called False Laurel because it doesn't actually belong to the Lauraceae family.
Sassafras is a genus in the Lauraceae family. So is Cinnanomum, which contains the species Camphora (Champhor) and Aromaticum / Cassia (the spice
Cinnamon).
Other guest appearances in the Lauraceae family are made by Bay and Avocado, among many others. Lots of the spicey or scented things hang around
there.
Cherry Laurel ended up mixed in there because it looks like Laurus Nobilis (Bay). The Greeks & Romans used to make crowns for victorious
competitors, poets or commanders from Bay. It doesn't look that similar, it doesn't smell anything like the other and it certainly doesn't taste
right.
Funnily, the correct genus for The Bastard Laurel is 'Prunus'.  Perhaps related
to what you'll have to do if you have one in your garden.
If you live in the UK, you'll have walked past billions of these things;
Does anyone remember this guy? Extra funnies if you can remember his catchphrase, do the accent and make a video.
[Edited on 30-9-2010 by peach]
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The WiZard is In
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Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  |
Many years ago a couple of women bought a packet of bitter almonds from a health food store and ate them on the way home. They both died of cyanide
poisoning! |
Imported Bitter Apricot Pits Recalled as Cyanide Hazard
By DENNIS HEVESI New York Times 26iii93
A health-food snack from Pakistan that contains dangerous levels of cyanide
has been ordered removed from health-food stores in New York, the State
Department of Agriculture and Markets announced yesterday.
"Oh boy, that's high; my goodness, that's very toxic," said Dr. Gilbert
Stoewsand, a food science and technology professor at Cornell University, when
told how much cyanide was found during the Agriculture Department's laboratory
tests of the product, Himalayan Harvest Apricot Kernels Naturally Bitter.
"At best, it is twice as high as the minimal lethal dose for an adult " Dr
Stoewsand said, adding that the danger would be even greater for a child.
The director of the Agriculture Department's food safety and inspect ion
division, Maurice Guerrette, said tests performed on two 8-ounce packages of
the bitter apricot kernels showed that they contained 568 milligrams and 604
milligrams of cyanide.
Lethal Dose Suspected
According to one study, the minimal lethal dose for a man who weighs 155
Pounds is 35 to 245 milligrams. A second study placed the lethal dose between
140 and 280 milligrams. Dr. Stoewsand said the wide range was attributable to
varying amounts of rhodanese, an enzyme produce in the human liver, that can
dot i y cyanide. "Even so, the amount of 568 milligrams would be between 2 and
12 times in excess of the lowest min mal lethal dose," he said.
Cyanide is naturally found in apricot kernels and other fruit pits and seeds, like
those of peaches and cherries, as well as in almonds, cassava and bamboo
shoots. Most often, however, those seeds and pits, including most apricot
kernels, are classified as sweet, a variety considered safe because they have
little cyanide. The problem lies in those products that are classified as bitter.
In the late 1960's and early 1970's, bitter apricot kernels - which contain
amygdalin, the compound that includes cyanide - were promoted as all
anti-cancer drug called lactrile. But the efficacy of lactrile was disproven by six
separate studies.
Other Products Passed Tests
Mr. Guerrette said several health food products under the Himalayan Harvest
label had been tested, but the only problem was with the bitter apricot kernels.
Those are all being recalled, he said.
The regional inspector handling the recall, Alfred Bugenhagen, said the bitter
apricot kernels had been distributed during the last four months to 17 stores from
Nassau County to Albany. Mr. Bugenhagen said the distributor, R. S. Organic
Imports of North Tarrytown, N.Y., did not say how much had been distributed,
but was cooperating with the recall.
The owner of the company, Robert Sterling, said bitter apricot kernels,
imported from the Hunza Valley in Pakistan, were one of 25 products he
distributes. "This is almost causing me to go out of business," Mr. Sterling said. "I
don't personally believe it's a dangerous product. You'd have to be stupid to cat
a whole bag of these things."
The alarm about bitter apricot kernels was raised by Robert Novick, a computer
consultant from Manhattan, who said he became seriously ill the day before
Christmas after he. ate a quarter of a bag. "I was unable to move for about a
12-hour period," said Mr. Novick, who contacted state authorities. There was
confusion, however, over whether Mr. Novick had eaten bitter apricot kernels or
another Himalayan Hai-vest product, which passed the state tests.
Officials of the United States Food and Drug Administration said they Were
unaware of problems with the bitter apricot kernels in other states. And Dr.
Michael Bolger, an F.D.A. toxicologist, said: "I'm not aware of any re orts of any
fatalities associated with this product right now."
But Dr. Stoewsand said: "You don't hear about the few people that do drop
dead. An autopsy would find out only if they did an analysis of cyanide in the
tissue."
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by peach |
In the UK, there is also a shrub called English Laural, Cherry Laurel or False Laurel or, the preferred embodiment, The Bastard Laurel. It's planted
as a boarder pretty much everywhere. All around uni's, hospitals, and so on. |
Plutarch says that the leaf of the peach tree is the symbol of the god of silence, and that the
Egyptians called this deity "Moth", a term which, the scholars tell us, becomes in Hebrew the word for
death. It appears that during the terrible ordeal of initiation into the sacred art of the Egyptians, the
candidate was forbidden to speak; an ancient papyrus preserved in the Louvre Museum (Paris) says:
" It was forbidden to speak the name of Jao for fear of death by the peach." The punishment was
death, and death by poisoning with water distilled from the leaves of the peach tree. The distillate
from the leaves of the laurel, bitter-almond, peach, etc., contains hydrocyanic acid. The leaves do not
contain the acid ready formed, but rather a glucoside--called "amygdalin" --which splits up into sugar,
oil of bitter almonds, and hydrocyanic acid. The so-called "laurel-water" and "bitter almond-water" of
pharmaceutical chemistry contain a little prussic acid. The "jealousy water" employed by the old
Egyptians and Hebrews for swiftly poisoning people guilty of certain crimes, was a similar
preparation.
JW Mellor
Modern Inorganic Chemistry
Longmnas, Green and Co.
7th ed. 1927
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peach
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I had a chuckle at that last one.
I have eaten feelable levels of cyanogens in food products. They taste kind of soapy.
Later on, my skin would feel extremely dry, and my mouth (I mean dry like I'd been eating sand from the Sahara). So much so that I'd be splashing
myself with cold water from the tap. My muscles were continually wanting to be stretched out. There is an irresistible urge to stretch, yawn, writhe
around (not in pain, but like you've just woken up). The horrible taste remains for a long while.
But once it's gone, it's gone, and feels quite nice afterwards. Refreshing.
I still wouldn't chompo-nom-nom through bags of nuts full of them. If you're going to sell bags of things full of it with the idea being to eat it, it
certainly needs SOME form of message on there. E.g. vitamins are sold to be eaten, but eating five packs of 3000% C tablets because you like the
tangy, fizzy taste isn't a good idea. If only in regards to what it'll do to your toilet paper invoice.
Whilst discussing natural cyanogens and whatnots, it's also a method used to catch fish. The commercial, don't give a fuckers, will dump liquid
cyanides into the rivers / streams. The old fashioned, more nature safe method is to fill a bag with peach stones (or the others) and leave it
floating. There's enough there to knock the fish to the surface, but not enough to render the entire water table a toxic hazard.
The plants like storing them as inactive forms so they don't interfere with their own metabolism, only becoming active when a cow starts nibbling; at
which point that bit of plant is lost to the ever chomping jaws of Ms Moo Cow anyway.
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by peach |
Whilst discussing natural cyanogens and whatnots, it's also a method used to catch fish. The commercial, don't give a fuckers, will dump liquid
cyanides into the rivers / streams. The old fashioned, more nature safe method is to fill a bag with peach stones (or the others) and leave it
floating. There's enough there to knock the fish to the surface, but not enough to render the entire water table a toxic hazard.
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In 1955, Tovo [96] described a fish poacher who died from absorption of KCN
through the skin. The poacher added KCN to a river upstream and others netted
the trout downstream. He was found 3 hours curled up on the side of the road
and without his boots and stockings, which were found on the river bank. He died
later that day without recovering consciousness. Necropsy revealed brownish-red
blotches from knee to instep that smelled of bitter almonds, as did the blood. The
body had a violet hypostatic coloration. The mother of the man pointed out that
the legs of his trousers had been rolled up above his knees and were dry but that
those of his long cotton underwear were wet at the bottom.
Chemical examination showed the presence of cyanide in the blood, urine, and several of
the vital organs, but concentrations were not reported. Tovo suggested that the
man had placed his stock of KCN temporarily in his boots to wade into the water
and that after that, either by accident of by misjudging the depth of the water, he
stepped into water deep enough to flow over the tops of this boots. Although he
escaped from the river as quickly as possible and removed his boots and
stockings, he did not have the caution to remove his long underwear soaked with
a solution of KCN. Consequently the poison was able to penetrate thorough the
man’s skin, more readily because of its corrosive activity, and eventually to cause
his death.
[96] Tovo, S: [Poisoning due to KCN absorbed through the skin.] Minerva Med
75:158-61, 1955 (Ita)
IN:—
DHEW (NIOSH) Publication No. 77-108
criteria for a recommended standard…
Occupational Exposure to Hydrogen Cyanide and Cyanide Salts (NaCN, KCN, and Ca(CN)2)
US Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
October 1976
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franklyn
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" Bitter " is a taste not a smell. I don't know how this
misunderstanding describing HCN began. Understandably
Prussic acid being acid should be bitter. I understand
the actual smell of it is floral. Presumably a small wiff
after being fortified by inhaking aliphatic nitrites won't
kill you.
.
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hissingnoise
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As a kid, I associated the smell of almonds (marzipan) with Christmas; the smell of toy caps featured too, but marzipan's mouthwatering smell was
delicious.
When at age twelve I first encountered gelignite I found it fascinating that it should smell strongly of sweet marzipan . . .
I can remember wanting to taste it!
Just as well that I wasn't handed a cyanide salt . . .
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tritium
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As currently I am doing a university project on Cherry liqueur I thought due to the similarities I might add two questions to this thread:
The main objective in my project should be the amygdalin-breakdown to glucose, HCN and benzaldehyde.
There is information on the internet that HCN, on irradiation by sunlight and elevated temperatures, does react with ethanol to form ethyl carbamate,
which is a suspected carcinogen. wikipedia shows that the primary reason for the formation of ethyl carbamate is the enzymatic breakdown of aminoacids
to urea and its further reaction with ethanol to ethyl carbamate.
My question is the following:
Does anybody know of studies that directly adress the HCN absorption in the "fermentation broth" to lower the content of HCN and ethyl carbamate in
the product?
I have by now read that there is zeoliths impregnated with Copper that do so, and also the use of a copper still would reduce the amount of cyanide in
the distillate. Wikipedia does say that distillation only concentrates the cyanide-derived products, so might it be that this wiki-statement is based
on not using a copper still?
Also, more directly related to this thread:
Does anyone know of flavouring studies that can point out why the scent of benzaldehyde is often compared to the scent of HCN?
Are there odor-studies that directly adress the pharmacological side of fragrance?
I read one study (a PhD thesis) about an odorant that took into account the receptor-site of the produced products comparable to a pharmacology
study. I suggest that both molecule act on the same Olfactory receptor neuron, but taken into account that some studies claim there is 350 different
receptor sites, some claim theres more than 1000 it is hard for me to believe that both molecules act on the same site.
I am thinking of opening a bottle of KCN or NaCN and take a whiff but I really am not in the mood to set the cyanide free for the sake of my
well-being.
Might it be that in former times the two procuts are still smellable in small amounts and traces were not easily seperated due to the origin of the
substances (enzymatic amygdalin breakdown of kernel fruit plants) and thereby the similarity was noted ?
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peach
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Wow, that's a fairly involved question with some biology mixed in. Excellent. I couldn't answer it myself, but was interested and did some searching,
where upon I found this;
| Quote: | Zoran writes that it is possible to remove any cyanide present, using copper sulphate:
in Serbia the national drink is a plum brandy called slivovitz. If someone tries to speed up fermentation by crushing plums with some mechanical
devices, natural glycosides come in contact with the enzymes present. After hydrolysis, a bitter taste and smell is a consequence of the cyanide
present. After distillation farmers do not throw away such brandy. Simply they put 20 g of CuSO4.5H2O on each 10 L of 80 proof (40%) brandy.
Chemically Cu(CN)2 is very hard do dissolve, even at high temperature. After distillation they got good drink. Big companies remove cyanide in the
same way. |
Homedistiller.org
In the references, you'll need;
Peach, quoting homedistiller, quoting Zoran (somewhere in Serbia brewing his own liquers, possibly a bit drunk), 6th 2010, Science Madness, page UTFSE
Or else.
As to the scent question, there are many receptors, but orders of magnitude more compounds for them to interact with.
It is interesting that a number of plants that contain benzaldehyde also contain cyanide capable compounds. We will have almost certainly evolved
trying to eat those things, and so it adds the possibility that our bodies have evolved to detect both as the same thing.
There are other aldehydes in there as well, a lot of which smell fruity and attract insects from miles away.
It's more curious why it doesn't smell like death, but more like a sweet shop. Perhaps our insecty origins? Insects are attracted to rotting fruit, as
the carbohydrates are being turned into sugars that make for easy digestion.
Fungi likes it as well, which is part of the reason for it spontaneously appearing out of no where as soon as a piece of fruit goes a bit too soft.
Usually Neurospora or Trichoderma, the 'green meanie' that appears on anything out of date, and just about everything else. They're both very
aggressive forms of life when it comes to self preservation.
Rice does something similar. People out in the East in poorer regions often only have rice to eat, and not a lot of protein or things with a varied
content. Some very good hearted scientists discovered they can help improve that by simply soaking the rice in warm water overnight. It activates
enzymes in the grains that begin converting the carbohydrates to proteins.
Companies who make perfumes, deodorants, soaps, and a lot of other things you wouldn't expect to be associated with smell, employ people specifically
to sniff things. They can even buy boxed sets of reference standards, so they can compare smells. E.g. undertone of xxx from box ...
Wine connoisseurs are just playing at it, those guys are super serious.
I absolutely adore it when some pretentious nunce starts going overboard on food or wine. A glass of any of it and you'll be drunk enough it doesn't
really matter anymore. £3 difference, yeah... okay... £1k difference, they're kidding themselves. And I go round sniffing soil, photocopier paper
and the packing my post turns up in.
I remember reading a study by audiophiles into cable selection. They had about 30 self appointed audio geniuses in a double blind listening test,
using dirt cheap cables and ones that cost £15k each.
Results, statistically no cohesion between increased cost and qualitative improvement. Still, they deny that as well. I also saw a program all about a
famous vineyard in France. They literally just made the prices up each year based on the maximum they could get away with. There IS a statistical
correlation, however, between a good year for them and the subsequent draining of a yuppies bank account.
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by peach]
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The WiZard is In
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Answering a question with a question....
Just how toxic is the fleshy part of the cherry?
Toxicants Occurring Naturally in Foods
National Academy of Sciences
1973
and
IE Liener Ed.
Toxic Constituents of Plant Foodstuffs
Academic Press 1969
Both reference —
M. Pijoan, Cyanide poisoning from choke cherry seed.
Am. J. Med. Sci. 204: 550 (1942).
Liener makes passing mention of cherry liqueur though at
the moment I cannot find it.
The ever useful —
JM Kingsbury
Poisonous Plants of the
United States and Canada
Prentice-Hall 1964
Notes that fresh samples of the leaves of [Prunus
virginiana L] average 143 mg HCN per 100 g.... wilted
leaves reached a recorded maximum of 243 g of wilted leaves.
Prunus serotina Ehrh. Fresh leaves average 212 mg HCN
per 100 g of leaves... At this level, less than 1/4 lb of fresh
leaves would prove toxic to a 100-lb animal...
The only mention of cherries in —
M Wink & Ben-Erik van Wyk
Mind-Altering and Poisonous Plants of the World
Timber Press 2008
D Frohne and HJ Pfänder
Poisonous Plants
Timber Press 2nd ed 2004 [German, 2005 English translation.]
Are the Cherry pie, Heliotropium arborescens and
Cherry laurel, Prunus laurocerasus.
I did not do a extensive search on this these were the first
books I pulled off my shelves. Then I gave up.
I would mention in passing — don't eat polar bear liver ...
it contains toxic amounts of Vitamin A.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | I would mention in passing — don't eat polar bear liver ...
it contains toxic amounts of Vitamin A. |
Shit! Another epicurean dream dashed . . .
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by peach | You can buy bitter almond oil from places like Holland & Barratt I think, it's on eBay and in all the essential oil shops.
In the UK, there is also a shrub called English Laurel, Cherry Laurel or False Laurel or, the preferred embodiment, The Bastard Laurel. It's planted
as a boarder pretty much everywhere. All around uni's, hospitals, and so on.
Emphasis added /djh/ |
Sunday, May 1, 2005. 10:11am (AEST)
Hospital sets deadly spider free
British hospital staff have released one of the world's deadliest
spiders on hospital grounds, after the chef it bit on the hand took it
with him when seeking treatment.
Hospital staff in Somerset released the brazilian wandering spider,
deadlier than a black widow and known for its speed and
aggression, after mistaking it for an everyday garden-variety
arachnid.
The spider normally lives in more tropical climes but is thought to
have arrived in England in a box of bananas.
The 13-centimetre hairy creature bit chef Matthew Stevens twice
on the hand in his pub kitchen earlier this month in Bridgwater in
Somerset.
Mr Stevens, 23, photographed the spider with his mobile phone,
thinking it dead after it had fallen in the freezer and been stunned
by the cold.
Just to make sure, he poured boiling water over the spider and
placed it in a jar, a report in The Times newspaper said. Later he
also cooked the spider in the microwave.
But by the time Mr Stevens was taken to hospital in Somerset,
dizzy and shaking and with his hand badly swollen, the spider had
shaken off the ill treatment and was up and moving again,
struggling to get out of the jar.
It was taken with Mr Stevens to the hospital, and then inadvertently released.
The photo Mr Stevens took with his mobile phone was sent to
Bristol Zoo in western England, where experts identified the spider
while doctors treated the cook with oxygen and a saline drip.
He was released a day later.
Officials at the hospital said the brazilian wandering spider was
unlikely to pose a risk to public health since it "would have died
very soon after being released" because of the cold.
------
"This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in a silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house
Against the envy of less happier lands
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm
This England"
[And home of consensual silliness.]
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by The WiZard is In]
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peach
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The, I'm gonna shake my arms and then kill ya, tricky to mistake as a common UK, Brazilian Wandering spider. That's one of the good things about the
UK (and Northen Europe in general), none of this stuff trying to crawl into your air ducts, shoes or cereal.
[Edited on 7-10-2010 by peach]
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ScienceSquirrel
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These are moderately common in Southern Europe and they bite!
http://www.petbugs.com/caresheets/S-cingulata.html
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by peach | | The, I'm gonna shake my arms and then kill ya, tricky to mistake as a common UK, Brazilian Wandering spider. That's one of the good things about the
UK (and Northen Europe in general), none of this stuff trying to crawl into your air ducts, shoes or cereal. |
Yup in the Geographic Distribution of Dangerously Venomous
Scorpions chapter of my ever useful copy of —
Hugh L Keegan
Scorpions of Medical Importance
U Press of Mississippi
1980
There no scorpions of any kind listed for Europe. Perhaps
the guy who chased the snakes out of Irleland had some
spare time ....
A signature of scorpion venom is that is quick acting —
death may occur in minutes of a sting.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
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Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination!
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: | I would mention in passing — don't eat polar bear liver ...
it contains toxic amounts of Vitamin A. |
Shit! Another epicurean dream dashed . . .
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Interestingly enough, so does dog liver and it is easier to obtain;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A
This was used as the basis for an episode of the UK TV series New Tricks ( Series 3, Episode 3 )
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