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Chainhit222
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what is the deal with cheap glassware on ebay?
I am looking to purchase a 400mm ghram condenser, so I compared several offers.
United glass tech:
http://unitedglasstech.com/condensers.htm 110$
Expediglass
http://expediglass.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductIndex=220 63$
ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/Graham-Condenser-24-40-Ground-Glass-join...
(600 mm! for only 70$)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Graham-Condenser-24-40-Ground-Glass-join...
400 mm 50$
What is the deal with the price differences? I wanna get the 600mm ghram for 70$, but I am suspicious of it. Why is it so cheap in comparison to UGT?
Could it be of lesser quality? Is UGT just a buncha ripoff artists? Someone that I know said that UGT has higher quality glass, but I do not remember
why, I think it was something about the joints being put together better.
I cannot really think of a good reason to put a ghram condenser under a vacuum, but are these cheap condensers safe to use? From what I understand
about pnumatics the stress on a thin condenser tube should be minimal, but is there anything to worry about should I chose to buy the cheaper ones on
ebay?
[Edited on 23-2-2010 by Chainhit222]
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bbartlog
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UGT is US-made as far as I know, the others are probably imports. I imagine that explains the price difference. If you have the patience to wait for
used equipment you can find even better prices. Note that the last item you link to is actually $56 plus $15 shipping (of course UGT has some shipping
charge as well), so the actual comparison is probably more like $125 vs $71. As price differences go for online shopping it doesn't seem like a
particularly remarkable difference.
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UnintentionalChaos
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The last two you link to have a drip tip instead of the male ground joint, which makes them significantly less desirable. I've purchased from UGT
before and am quite pleased with their products. They are vastly cheaper than bigger name suppliers as well. I can't comment on expediglass.
For comparison, a 400mm 24/40 jointed graham condenser from ace glass is $198.60
From corning (Pyrex), the same specs cost $186.26, if you buy 4 at once (total of $745.05). They don't seem to offer single pieces.
I never buy import anything anymore, after a bad experience with bomex glass early in my amateur chemistry "career." I typically shop the used items
(with a great deal of patience) and find gems such as a 500mm leibig condenser for $30, 150ml fritted buchners for $10, etc.
[Edited on 2-23-10 by UnintentionalChaos]
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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Chainhit222
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ah, i did not catch the fact that it had a drip tip. I guess I will stick with expediglass or UGT... which do you think is a better choice?
And can you please elaborate on what your bad experience with "bomex" glass was?
The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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aonomus
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Getting glassware cheap is a skill itself.
- Bomex is off brand cheap borosilicate glass, half the time it fails just cause its mass manufactured. You won't find any ground glass stuff in
'bomex', its Pyrex (name brand under Dow Corning I believe), or its not proper glassware.
- If its a elaborate piece of glassware and its cheap, there is either a crack in it somewhere that makes it unusable, its missing a key component
whose replacement part costs more than a new item, or, its not ground glass, it has a drip tip.
- Also, ground glass jointed glassware is so cheap half the time cause labs close down and bankrupt. Some people sell it cheaper than what its worth,
but make sure they know how to pack it properly.
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Magpie
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I usually buy name brand beakers and round bottom flasks, ie, Pyrex, Kontes, Kimble, Wilmad, Chemglass and such. I have started buying some UGT RBFs.
The glass looks good but only time will tell. I need to put some UGT under vacuum to see how precise the taper is ground.
I have bought cheap knock-off adaptors (Expedia, Kantu). One of these adaptors won't hold a seal under vacuum.
I don't much care where I buy, ie, chemical supply house or eBAy. It's the brand name and condition I look for. Of course I'm always looking for a
bargain.
As previously stated, eBay + patience can get get you some very good deals.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Bolt
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I have had great experiences with UGT as a company and their products.
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aonomus
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I've ordered stuff from UGT, their glass is good, although something that really wasn't worth fussing over, the distillation adapter is *slightly* off
angle (ie: not 105deg)
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anotheronebitesthedust
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UGT sent me a 2000ml sep funnel that the stopcock and driptip had completely broken off. Attached to the bubble wrap that it was wrapped in there was
a piece of scotch tape with 'broken' written on it. Kinda suspicious. When I asked for a refund they told me I'd have to pay for the repair. I also
bought three 24/40 5000ml flasks from them. With 2 of those flasks the necks snapped off after a few weeks. Their 2L and 1L flasks are very sturdy
though and are very good quality.
Expediglass condensers seem really good quality. I haven't ordered flasks from them yet, maybe in the future sometime I will.
I'll buy Bomex for non important uses like simple mixing or approximate measuring. I notice a lot of their flasks, graduated cylinders and beakers
have air bubbles in them. Although the 2000ml sep funnels have been flawless and I buy quite a few of them on a regular basis.
Pyrex Vista has pretty cheap 1L and 2L flasks. But other than that it's hard to find high quality flasks for cheap. Especially if you plan on using
vacuum you may want to spend the extra money.
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chief
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Have you all too much money ?
==> What became out of the good-old glass-working, that once every chemist was capable of ?
Why not just buy glass-tubing, for 5 $ a kg, and make those coolers yourself ? They are basically just a thinner tube within a thicker one, the
thinner mabe a little bit shaped ...
The only not-so-easily replicable parts are the connections ... ; but then: The hand-held butane-torch easily allows for melt-sealing connections, and
breaking them later ... ; just make them of thinner glass ... (of the same sort (!), for equal thermal expansions) ...
Also teflon-hoses are available by the meter, as well as from silicone or whatever ...
Thing ist: Those expensive apparatuses may be nice, but the prices are clearly rip-off. Single-digit $-numbers would be all right, at most up to 20
for the fancier ones.
[Edited on 24-2-2010 by chief]
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Magpie
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Chief, could you please make me one of these (250mL):
http://www.aceglass.com/page.php?page=6840
I will gladly pay you $20, or 20EUR 
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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bbartlog
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>What became out of the good-old glass-working, that once every chemist was capable of ?
>Why not just buy glass-tubing, for 5 $ a kg, and make those coolers yourself ?
And while we're at it we should also refine our own ores to the elemental metals, and buy petroleum by the barrel to fractionate so that we can avoid
the ripoff prices for feedstock organic reagents.
Obviously making the glassware yourself is a fine thing if you enjoy it, but if your goal is synthesis then buying the glass likely makes more sense.
Exceptions might be if your time is really only worth $3/hour and you have easy access to a variety of glass stock. Or if you regularly need really
off-the-wall glassware.
The other thing is that unless your skill level is high, you're going to be increasing your risks. You aren't going to match the quality of good
commercial glass without a lot of practice (and possibly an annealing furnace and other gear).
[Edited on 24-2-2010 by bbartlog]
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densest
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My experience with bomex has been universally bad. It doesn't bounce nearly as well as Pyrex or Kimax  Flameworkers using Chinese borosilicate have complained that it isn't uniform as if it wasn't stirred well or the
correct anti-crystallization measures weren't taken.
I've dealt with UGT a couple of times and found them reasonable in quality and service, varying all over the place in price (relative to other
sources).
I too go for used wherever it makes sense.
Making anything even slightly complex in glass requires a lehr, kiln, annealer, what-you-may-call-it to get the strains out. Without annealing, the
only question is when it will shatter. You can flame-anneal simple things once you know how. Without a polariscope to see the strains, you can't tell
if you did it right. Which is more important - a few $ or your face when the fitting you made breaks in the middle of adding fuming HNO3?
At the nominal 3.2ppm TCE, borosilicate shrinks about 0.4% from working temperature to room temperature. This can generate huge forces - 250Mpa, 36000
psi. Borosilicate glass is incredibly strong but it has limits...
[Edited on 24-2-2010 by densest]
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Chainhit222
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For the record, the distillation kit I got from UGT stood up to distilling sulfuric acid under vacuum, and distilling nitric acid under vacuum.
From what I read here, I think im going to buy glass like beakers/graduated cylinders/stand alone stuff from expediglass, but glass that functions
with other glass from UGT 
The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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mr.crow
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Speaking of Chinese glassware, has anyone heard of the brand Synthware? It appears to be well made, and they claim they get their glass from Germany.
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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undead_alchemist
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Glassco Branded items are made from schott duran Glass. Same goes for Sibata
http://www.veegee.com/glassware.html
My work is a distributor for them.
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agorot
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I've used scientific equipment of houston in the past. They have excellent quality glass and am very satisfied. Reasonable prices and insanely cheap
shipping 
http://www.labmiser.com/
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undead_alchemist
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Most of the jointed glassware that scientific equipment of houston have listed on their site are Glassco.
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Oppenheimer
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So you're saying that Scientific equipment of Houstin is no good?
I'm trying to pick a site to order my first batch of glassware from (beakers, flasks, bottlers, grad cyclinders) to get started on some things, and
don't really want any cheap glass to shatter all over me .
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chemrox
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There are deals to be had on ebay in used glassware. Buying these is not without risk. Old glassware can etched in ways one doesn't see until he
tries to clean it. I bought a flask on ebay so cheap I was warned by my glassblower not to put a vacuum on it. It was ChemGlass as I recall. Bomex
beakers have been of two distinct lines; one good one garbage. Since they make both lines under the same name I don't buy them on ebay. I got a case
of tall beakers that were worthless. The spout was screwed up on every one of them. I've gotten some fantatstic buys on ebay too. I have enough
Buchi condensers to assemble a dozen systems which I will sell on LabX. I have a vacuum system worth around $7K I got for a tenth of that. cart,
pump, traps, vacuum gauge, two tier manifold with st and O-ring joints .. incredible Welches two stage pump...
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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Chainhit222
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Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  | | There are deals to be had on ebay in used glassware. Buying these is not without risk. Old glassware can etched in ways one doesn't see until he
tries to clean it. I bought a flask on ebay so cheap I was warned by my glassblower not to put a vacuum on it. It was ChemGlass as I recall. Bomex
beakers have been of two distinct lines; one good one garbage. Since they make both lines under the same name I don't buy them on ebay. I got a case
of tall beakers that were worthless. The spout was screwed up on every one of them. I've gotten some fantatstic buys on ebay too. I have enough
Buchi condensers to assemble a dozen systems which I will sell on LabX. I have a vacuum system worth around $7K I got for a tenth of that. cart,
pump, traps, vacuum gauge, two tier manifold with st and O-ring joints .. incredible Welches two stage pump... |
Check it out! Independently targeting particle beam phalanx. Vwap! Fry half a city with this puppy. We got tactical smart missiles, phase-plasma pulse
rifles, RPGs, we got sonic electronic ball breakers! We got nukes, we got knives, sharp sticks...
The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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Oppenheimer
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I know ebay to be a place of good deals, as well as labx, at least for more expensive pieces like condensers or hot plates etc.
Since beakers and flasks are relatively cheap (a couple dollars a piece) I'd rather not risk buying some used glassware with cracks I can't see from
someone who doesn't know how to ship it off ebay.
There are so many knockoffs of the top brands everyone knows I can't figure out what is crap and what isn't. Bromex? Borosil?
I'm guessing most of it is borosilicate, but not of high a quality. Anyway, just wondering about a legitimate site I can make my first basic
glassware purchase off of...some erlynmeyers..beakers...bottles...grad cylinder, and test tube.
thanks
was actually wondering about these guys, they look really nice
http://www.novatech-usa.com/
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peach
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| Quote: Originally posted by aonomus | | I've ordered stuff from UGT, their glass is good, although something that really wasn't worth fussing over, the distillation adapter is *slightly* off
angle (ie: not 105deg) |
That's definitely not worth fussing over.
I have expensive QuickFit branded glass (which is an actual brand blown here in the UK) and the heads aren't dead on.
If I'm using big, long stretches of vigreux and condenser, I'll stick a ball and socket in there somewhere to get some flexibility in the angles and
avoid snapping things as it's clamped and heated.
Really expensive, pro, large, usually custom order, glassware is all ball and socket for that reason; it's far too tricky to set up the heavy flasks
and clamp the long lengths without something making that rage inducing 'crack' sound, which in my mind sounds more like "time for the bank account to
take another raping".
| Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust | | UGT sent me a 2000ml sep funnel that the stopcock and driptip had completely broken off. Attached to the bubble wrap that it was wrapped in there was
a piece of scotch tape with 'broken' written on it. Kinda suspicious. When I asked for a refund they told me I'd have to pay for the repair.
|
I hope they sorted you out with that money wise, because there's no way I'd accept that. I wouldn't buy from them again and I'd probably take them to
court if they refused to fully refund it, regardless of the rest of the glass.
I've ordered from both Expedi and UGT. In fact, I sent something to one of the forum members here in an envelope from UGT that had a sticker saying
"Visit our site!" on it, under which I wrote a note about Expedi being far cheaper.
Admittedly, the only thing I've ordered from them is keck clips.
UGT is quite impersonal and blunt, or none responsive sometimes. The guy running Expedi is much more talkative.
UGT's keck clips where made by Schott Duran. Expedi's, which were less than half the price I think, where clearly imports from China. It not only had
China as the country of origin on the sticker, but China printed on the clips.
I do buy imports, carefully.
The China clips where 'tacky' looking, in that the plastic wasn't very pigmented at all. But colour isn't a big issue. The moulding was nearly as good
as the Schott Durans.
Both are polyacetate, both melt at the same point, both fall apart around some corrosive gases. I haven't really seen any major difference between
them other than the price.
| Quote: Originally posted by chief |
Thing ist: Those expensive apparatuses may be nice, but the prices are clearly rip-off. Single-digit $-numbers would be all right, at most up to 20
for the fancier ones. |
I want to learn to blow complex glass. But, at the moment, it'd cost me far more for a poorer result to blow some of the things I need myself.
I do agree, the attitudes and prices around preblown glass are often just stupid. I've asked a number of the purveyors of this 'dying art in need of
young blood' for help getting into it, and received none.
I realize it's difficult, but when I'm paying up to the £100 mark for a funnel, that's not realistic. Especially when said funnel features off-square
tubing, tapers with visible ridges and snaps early in it's life (indicating it may not have been annealed). £45 - £55 for the repair, minus the next
day insured postage each way.
And, of coarse, if you ask for a refund for something like a potential annealing problem, the reply you'll get is "It's your fault". I have worked for
companies that use that as their standard reply, regardless of how shit their product actually is; to the extent of hiding their postal addresses and
leaving the (mobile) phone permanently on the machine, so the customers can't make direct contact with them. I resigned, in quite a heated argument
(which ended with them physically threatening my family and myself), shortly after. Even people like Paypal 'openly' (don't know if they still do)
admits to 'hiding' their contact information, to 'make the service cheaper in terms of staffing', as the eGimp forces you to offer their monopoly on
payment and PayPal charge you their eye watering fees, whilst retaining the right to flag, fully drain and then access your bank account should they
'suspect' a transaction.
The refund policy of Paypal is also out of line with what the acts regarding distance sales and consumer protection have to say. Something which I
believe is technically impossible to enforce.
Something people often forget is that paying with a credit card automatically insures the full purchase value. As the money is effectively on loan
from the bank. And, in signing up for the card and the bank agreeing to loan you the money, they're legally said "we trust your judgment and ability
to deal with our money". If the transaction fucks up, that's their money, and they agreed for you to spend it based on them deciding (legally) that
you can make a fair judgment with it, so it's their responsibility to cover it.
Also, you can pay directly into bank accounts in person, for free, and receive a teller's receipt (no arguing with that in court). Or use telephone /
online banking to do the same. Somehow, I doubt adding the third party called Paypal improves the security of that transaction, if only for the added
stage involved.
| Quote: | | Since beakers and flasks are relatively cheap (a couple dollars a piece) I'd rather not risk buying some used glassware with cracks I can't see from
someone who doesn't know how to ship it off ebay. |
I've probably spent a few thousand on glass and equipment from eGay. For the most part, it's okay.
But people really do start pushing their luck on occasions.
I had a 1l QuickFit flask turn up just recently, described as being perfectly good.
It was so scratched to fuck (deeply) I was confident it'd go under vacuum. So much so, I hooked it up, left the room, set up the video camera to
record it for you if it did, and started the pump from the kitchen, watching through the window.
It survived, but I am still highly skeptical of how it's going to behave under vacuum once heat is involved; it can have a go with some water first, a
few times.
Another, from the same guy and described as good, was chipped.
When I contacted him immediately upon receipt I said "What have you been doing to this? That's badly scratched and I doubt it's going to be okay" (it
looked like he'd taken a densits burr and skipped it across the surface inside).
His reply was something along the lines of "QuickFit isn't designed for use under deep vacuum, if you need that, you need specialized glass".
My reply "All of QuickFit's glass is designed for use under a total vacuum"
His reply... never came. And he never answered me again, even when I offered to buy some more items.
Just last week I bought some wash bottles. The guy I bought them from routinely sets his used prices very close to the retail prices. They were all
described as 'like new' or 'perfect' and 're-annealed'.
On arrival, one looked about two decades old and, again, was scratched. I'd sent him an extra £10 for another, which he hadn't sent. I had to remind
him, three times, to refund the extra money.
I had the courier smash my first bit of sent out glass two weeks ago. All shit is hitting the turbine as the buyer is going mental and I'm trying to
get the money refunded by the courier for him. It's a slow process, that they have a tendency to not do their part on for glass items.
UGT seem to know what they're doing, looking at their site, and the prices are okay on the glass. But that funnel story (as it stands) is not good at
all, and fits with my opinion on their impersonal nature.
[Edited on 14-8-2010 by peach]
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undead_alchemist
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I am not saying that.
Glassco is a good company.
You might have bought some of there products and not even known it. They OEM for many large names.
Example:
Millipore glassware is made by Glassco.
Same goes for VWR and Fisher branded glass.
Even some Schott glassware as well.
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Funkerman23
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| Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow | | Speaking of Chinese glassware, has anyone heard of the brand Synthware? It appears to be well made, and they claim they get their glass from Germany.
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If there main site is anything to go but I dunno..seems like them and Laboy really need to hire a web
master..ehh I've put in a request for a catalog..We'll see how that goes.
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