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Sedit
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Simple OrganicDiamines
I was woundering if anyone had information about this chemical. I have had a very hard time finding anything at all on it and am starting to wounder
if it exist in its free none salt state because all I can seem to find information on is its dihydrogen chloride salt.
The preperation of Ethylene Diamine seems that it would be a viable pathway in the reaction of Dichloroethane with ammonia.
ClCH2CH2Cl + 4 NH3 → H2NCH2CH2NH2 + 2 NH4Cl
This was going to be the compound I attempted to synthesis by chlorination of Ethylene Glycol but since I had Dichloromethane on hand I decided to try
it with that.
The DCM was added to dilute aq NH3 and with shaking the DCM slowly went away leaving a cloudy mixture. I had a reference stating that the reaction
with aq ammonia leads to the dihydrogen chloride product but the reaction stated above from wiki seems to suggest other wise and I can't seem to find
the text that I had read this from.
I evaporated the aq mixture to yeild a small amount of tan powder that when mixed with sodium carbonate quickly liquifyed and smelled slightly of fish
but since it was done on such a small scale I could not gather anything conclusive. I want to step up and see about doing this with a larger amount
but the bulk of a dilute NH3 prohibits that to any real extent and I want to gather much more information before moving forward.
Is it just me or is Google slowly becoming useless for finding good information because no matter what I do I find next to nothing on Methylene
Diamine, Diamino Methane, Methanediamine, ect....ect.... I have been able to find sparce information on its salt forms but nothing of its free state.
Here is a little bit of discussion that I could find on its synthesis of the sulfate salt.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?action=pri...
[Edited on 29-6-2009 by Sedit]
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"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
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UnintentionalChaos
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Wouldn't this compound tend to eliminate ammonia in basic environment, forming methanimine? I suspect the main product of the reaction would be
hexamine, although some CH2(NH2)2*2HCl may be formed. Secondary amines (used in place of ammonia) would not be able to eliminate in this manner.
[Edited on 6-28-09 by UnintentionalChaos]
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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Sedit
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Its a good possibility.
I have the same suspicions as you do about the formation of hexamine as being a product also.
Thing is why would this compound want to eliminate ammonia where as EDA does not? I have seen abstracts while one the prowl for information that
stated CH2(NH2)*2HCl being used as a slow NH3 source for the formation of secondary amines so it does release NH3 but im unsure as to the conditions
of it. Also would this not be a basic material to begin with?
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
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UnintentionalChaos
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Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  | Its a good possibility.
I have the same suspicions as you do about the formation of hexamine as being a product also.
Thing is why would this compound want to eliminate ammonia where as EDA does not? I have seen abstracts while one the prowl for information that
stated CH2(NH2)*2HCl being used as a slow NH3 source for the formation of secondary amines so it does release NH3 but im unsure as to the conditions
of it. Also would this not be a basic material to begin with? |
It would eliminate ammonia for the same reason that methylene diol (equilibrium product of formaldehyde in water) eliminates water, but ethylene
glycol does not.
Eliminating NH3 in ethylene diamine would form a three membered ring. Eliminating NH3 from methylene diamine gives a nice, happy double bond.
If the "methylene" carbon is extremely acidic, gem-diols and gem-diamines are stabilized. Look at hexafluoroacetone for a good example.
These compounds can be trapped as their salts, because electron pushing needs to occur to eject the second amine as ammonia, and the lone pair on
nitrogen is bound up in a bond for ammonium salts.
[Edited on 6-29-09 by UnintentionalChaos]
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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sparkgap
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Hmm...
sparky (~_~)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Sedit
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Yes thats the link that I posted in the opening post. Still that forms the salt and im pretty sure UC maybe correct in it not being a stable compound
in its free form. I suspected polymerization to hexamine but he may very well be correct in thinking that methanimine may be the product.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Sauron
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Look in Beilstein. Look in CRC Handbook. If something that simple and small isn't known, the most likely reason is that it does not exist.
You might have tried MeBr2 or MeI2, lots more reactive than MeCl2 (DCM) If DCM did this at all it would need elevated temp and pressure.
The real methylene building block is CH2O - formaldehyde. And it loves to react with NH3 just usually in more complex ways than CH2(NH2)2 - hexamine
for example. See the formaldehyde book in forum library. The title, as Bull Gates would say, is intiotive.
Also there is cyanamide H2N-CN
If that will sit still for reduction
H2N-CH2-NH2
[Edited on 29-6-2009 by Sauron]
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querjek
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Isn't there a risk for polymerization to [CH2-NH-]n?
it's all about chemistry.
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Sauron
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I would not be surprised.
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Sedit
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I have had a strong feeling about that also and im pretty sure thats whats taking place because after evaporating the liquid I was left with less
solid then expected and after the addition of sodium carbonate the smell was much weaker then expected from a lower amine like Diaminomethane.
Some form of reaction is taking place but I have yet to determine what form and I think I am going to just continue on my original path of
Ethylenediamine synthesis instead.
I was thinking of trying to brominate Ethylene glycol simular to Arrhenius iodomethane prep except using NaBr to form Dibromo Ethane and then react
that with NH3 to yeild Ethylene Diamine. Sounds like it should work in theory but only time will tell.
PS: Im going to change the name of this threed to organic diamines so I can continue to discuss a working synthesis of Ethylene Diamine. If any of the
mods object feel free to slap me around and change the title back. Or better yet if you can think of a more appropriate name feel free.
[Edited on 29-6-2009 by Sedit]
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Sauron
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You can find a general procedure for alkyl bromides and dibromides in Org.Sym. using NaBr and conc H2SO4 (making HBr in situ) treating alcohols and
glycols.
Making ethylenediamine is a little pedestrian; I mean, it is a well known compound and AFAIK that is how it is made.
Methylenediamine is more ambitious but a bit of paper chase can take the place of a lot of cut & try. I am reminded of Tesla's famous comment on
Edison, q.v.
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DJF90
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I suspect methylenediamine not to be stable in solution. The gem-diamine has a structure similar to a carbonyl hydrate, but with -NH2 instead of -OH.
I would therefore expect the gem-diamine to be in equilibrium with formaldehyde hydrate, as the water present in solution could substitute. Hexamine
may also be formed (at eqm. we have both formaldehyde and NH3 in solution, and some methylamine hydrochloride may additionally be formed. If the
diamine was formed in anhydrous liquid ammonia and somehow extracted and stored out of contact with alcohols or water then you might be able to
isolate methylenediamine. This is just my rationalisation though.
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Sauron
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Liquid NH3 would be ideal but other aprotic solvents could be used along with NH3 (g) to achieve same end.
The question of method is premature IMO until a lit. search indicates whether this compound is known. There ought to be theoretical studies, and
either preps, or failed attempted preps.
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Sedit
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I have been doing a bit of hunting with the time I'v had and still even though information of this compound seems sparce outside of its dihydrogen
chloride salt I did manage to find this patant that seems to explain why there is not much talk of it.
Methylene diamine ester and method of making same -
Link: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2290412.pdf
That states exactly what myself and everyone else seemed to suspect in that it is a very unstable creature in the freebase form but gives nothing
conclusive that I could see at first glance as to what it destabilized to. Since I have seen mention of the salt being used to deliver a slow steady
amount of NH3 to a reaction I'v concluded that the free form of it will more then likely lose the NH3 rather quickly but after that I don't know.
I will keep searching as much as time allows.
[Edited on 30-6-2009 by Sedit]
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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not_important
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It is known
http://cameochemicals.noaa.gov/chemical/20647
and for sale
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/ProductDetail.do?N4=6677...
http://www.mpbio.com/product_info.php?products_id=221241
not much lit on it, a possible useful related paper is
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja00757a042
Methylene diamine ester and method of making same
US patent 2290412
Likely routes would include reacting an alkali metal salt of phthalimide with CH2Br2, or
CH3NO2 + NaOMe => CH2(NO2)Na , + Br2 => CH2(NO2)Br , + NaNO2 => CH2(NO2)2 , then reduction of the -NO2 groups under conditions that
inhibit polymerising of the diamine.
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Sedit
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Fe/HCl reduction should be able to reduce he Dinitro compond and yeild the stable Dihydrogen chloride. Since Sigma Aldrich list its storage
temperature as 6 deg C then it may just be best to perform this reduction under cold conditions I would think.
I have already put in a request for that exact paper in hopes that I can find out what it destabilizes to form.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Sauron
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Here is Ullmann's dump
Note that methylenediamine is not mentioned. Also note that oligomerization i a problem even with the ethylene compound,
8. Diamines and Polyamines
8.1. Diamines
8.1.1. 1,2-Diaminoethane (Ethylenediamine)
)
Production. 1,2-Diaminoethane is mainly produced by treating ethylene dichloride (EDC) with aqueous or liquid ammonia at about 100 °C in the liquid
phase [236]. This so-called EDC process has been modified frequently [237]; the reactant ratio, product recycle, pH, reactor geometry, temperature,
and pressure control the product mix. Byproducts include the higher oligomers diethylenetriamine (DETA), triethylenetetramine (TETA), and
tetraethylenenpentamine (TEPA). An unavoidable coproduct of the EDC process is the amine hydrochloride, which must be neutralized with caustic soda,
lime, or other bases to form, e.g., sodium or calcium chloride. Ethylenediamine is either extracted or distilled from the aqueous stream after
neutralization. If deemed necessary, the higher amines can be recycled to optimize EDA production and vice versa. About two-thirds of the installed
ethylenediamine capacity still relies on the EDC process.
A second process is the reaction of monoethanolamine with ammonia and hydrogen over a nickel or cobalt catalyst at 20 MPa and 150 – 230 °C [238].
The yield of 1,2-diaminoethane is 74 %, based on an ethanolamine conversion of 93 %. Byproducts are mainly DETA and piperazine, but also
aminoethylpiperazine (AEP) and hydroxyethylpiperazine (HEP). The monoethanolamine process has cost advantages over the ethylene dichloride process,
circumvents chloride disposal, and prevents the formation of chlorinated hydrocarbons. Lower amines can be recycled to increase the amount of higher
ethanolamines; cyclic products are much more abundant than in the EDC process. Product distribution is dependent on reactant ratio, temperature,
pressure, and conversion. Recently, nickel – rhenium catalysts have often been employed [239], but many other nickel catalysts with different
promoters have also been suggested, for instance, Ni – Re – B supported on alumina [240] or Ni – Co – Cu – Re – B on silica [241].
A third important and very cost effective production process is the reaction of ethylene oxide with ammonia [242], as developed by Berol (now Akzo) in
Sweden. Among the byproducts of this process are DETA, piperazine and di- and triethanolamine. Union Carbide has recently brought a similar process
into operation. The production of diaminoethane by the reaction of formaldehyde with hydrocyanic acid, ammonia, and hydrogen [243], of chloroacetyl
chloride with ammonia [244], and by hydrogenation of aminoacetonitrile [245] are of lesser importance.
Quality, Analysis, and Storage. The purity of diaminoethane, determined by titration and gas chromatography, is usually above 99 %. For storage,
containers made of stainless steel and aluminum are preferred to avoid deterioration of the color number when the product is stored for long periods.
Because it is corrosive, EDA should not be stored in containers made of copper, copper alloys, or uncoated iron. Frequently containers made of iron
coated with plastics, such as Lupolen (BASF) or phenolic resins, are used for shipping and storing diaminoethane. Tin-lined drums can also be
employed. Because the amine is hygroscopic and reacts with carbon dioxide in the air, tanks must be flushed with nitrogen before use. This also avoids
discoloration during storage.
Uses. Diaminoethane is mainly used in detergents, resins, crop protection agents, paper chemicals, lubricants, and pharmaceuticals. The chelating
agent ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA) and its salts are important products, in particular in the United States. They are made by reaction of
EDA with formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide or sodium cyanide together with an excess of sodium hydroxide. Tetraacetylethylenediamine (TAED), which is
obtained from EDA, is used in the detergent industry as a cold-bleach activator. It has become the fasted-growing EDA product in the last years.
Hydroxyethylethylenediamine is also converted into chelating agents. Several nitrogen-containing surfactants are produced from fatty acids and EDA or
aminoethylethanolamine, available from EDA and ethylene oxide. Nonreactive polyamide resins produced from EDA and diacids also consume large amounts
of EDA. They find use as adhesives and for printing inks.
The zinc and manganese salts of ethylene-bisdithiocarbamic acid, obtained from EDA, are used as fungicides (maneb, mancozeb, zineb or metiram) and
have a significant market. Other fungicides based on EDA are known, e.g., those of the imidazoline type.
The EDA-derivative N,N-ethylene bis(stearamide) (EBS) has lubricating properties and is used as a mold-release agent, for the processing of
thermoplastic resins, in paper coating, wire production, etc. EDA is also used for gasoline and lubricant additives and for surfactant production.
Diaminoethane – polyester condensates that are hydroxymethylated with formaldehyde can be used as plasticizers for phenol – formaldehyde resins
[246]. The use of condensates of diaminoethane, epoxides, and urea as nitrogen-containing polyol components for the production of polyurethane foams
is proposed in [247]. The addition of EDA to viscose fiber spinning baths is said to improve the tensile strength of the fiber [248]. In the wet
spinning of polyurethane fibers, diaminoethane is a rapid-action curing agent [249]. The incorporation of diaminoethane into diisocyanate –
polyester prepolymers results in useful polymers for the production of elastic polyurethane fibers [250]. Ethyleneurea derivatives prepared from
diaminoethane are used for textile finishing. Diaminoethane is employed as a stabilizer for rubber latex. In the mineral oil industry, diaminoethane
can act as a stabilizer for halogen-containing high-pressure lubricating oils [251] and, in the form of Schiff bases with ketones, is also used as a
metal deactivator [252].
Economic Aspects. Ethylenediamine and its homologues are large-scale chemical products. The global demand for ethyleneamines in 1998 was estimated at
250 000 t [253]; capacities are around 340 000 t/a. The European market is ca. 100 000 t/a with an annual growth rate of 3 – 4 % [254]; the U.S.
market has a similar size, and the Japanese is ca. 15 000 t/a. Major producers are Union Carbide, Dow, Akzo Nobel, Tosoh, BASF, and Bayer. In the
United States and Japan, the ethylenediamine market is smaller than that of the higher ethyleneamines, and vice versa in Europe.
[Edited on 30-6-2009 by Sauron]
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DJF90
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Heres the article not_important cited:
Attachment: Methylene derivatives....pdf (711kB)
This file has been downloaded 856 times
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Sauron
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Hate to tell you but I posted that paper in Refs for sedit yesterday. And as far as I can see it is a useless potentiometric study of distantly
related systems and of no preparative significance at all. I only gace it to him because he asked for it.
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Nicodem
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gem-Diamines are stable compounds in the form of their salts or amides. The methylenediamine sulfate can be prepared from HCHO, NH3 and H2SO4 (see the
attached paper: JACS, 70, 3659-3664). Its diformamide (HCONH)2CH2 can be prepared from HCONH2, HCHO and H2SO4 (see Chemische Berichte, 97, 297 - 298), and this can be hydrolysed to methylenediamine sulfate.
Attachment: The Reaction between Formaldehyde and Ammonia.pdf (769kB)
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[Edited on 30/6/2009 by Nicodem]
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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Sauron
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Wow. A whopping 13% tield amounting to < 500 mg.
Still I suppose it's like a dog walking on its hind legs. It isn't that the dog does it well but that the dog can do it at all.
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Formatik
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Methanediamine Beilstein reference is 1 [I] 306, [II] 648. I don't have those. Though Beilstein 1 61 does mention heating CH2Cl2 with alcoholic NH3 to
100-125° forms (CH2)6N4; heating CH2Cl2 with aqueous NH3 to 200° forms HCl, HCOOH, and CH3NH2.
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Sedit
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So it does form Methylamine then Formatik?
I thought alot about it being a novel MeNH2 synthesis after UnintentionalChaos mentioned the possible formation of Methyleneimine but could not figure
an efficiant way other then neutralizing with HCl and fractional crystalizing to seperate the Ammonia Chloride and Methylamine. Since I did not want
to waste HCl not knowing if it formed or not I did not attempt it.
Its good to know thank you Formatik. Do you have a link to the given reference?
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Sauron
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DCM amd aq NH3 @ 200 C will be a pressure reaction, and looks to me like HCl, MeNH2 and HCOOH can only form N-methylformamide hydrochloride under
those condirions.
CH2Cl2 + NH4OH -> HCONHCH3.HCl + HCl
which does not tell the whole story since excess base will make NH4Cl and free the formamide base while excess acid would drive the reverse reaction
to formic acid and MeNH2.HCl
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not_important
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But cheap materials, not too difficult to preform, and the K2CO3 should be mostly recoverable.
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