Wolfram
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Pb2+ to Pb(s)?
How do I convert Pb2+ solution to Pb(s) in the easiest way?
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Mumbles
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Add an excess of a metal higher on the activitity series. Might I recomend Aluminum or Iron, as these are the most economical and available.
Submerge the metal in the solution, and let react. You will be left with the coresponding salt of your metal, excess metal, and lead metal. Also the
corresponding salt of the metal you use should be soluble too.
Activity Series
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Wolfram
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How long time
How long time do you think to use aluminium to produce 100 g of Pb(s). I dont want to wait more then a week.
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blip
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It shouldn't take long at all. What lead compound do you plan to use? If you don't mind me asking, what is the intention of the resultant
metal? I'm just curious.
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chemoleo
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well, if it is a solid block of Fe or Al, it will take some time - up to a week or more. Particularly, if the Pb(s) forms a layer on the metal below,
so that solvent exchange can not take place easily.
Hence, metal powders will work best - and fast too. Make sure you have an excess of Lead salt over metal powder (in terms of stoichiometry), else you
risk having Al/Fe leftovers...
Btw, 100 g of Pb(s) is not much, about 10 cubic centimeters... just in case you didnt realise this!
[Edited on 29-10-2003 by chemoleo]
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Wolfram
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The lead
The lead will be used to form PbO with NaNO3.
Pb + NaNO3 ---> PbO + NaNO2
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Mumbles
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I would personally go with aluminum wire. Its cheap, and can be removed easily. Using a powder could prove to be very difficult in removing excess
Al. If you still want to increase the reaction rate, pound the wire flat. Aluminum wire, from my experience goes pretty fast. I'd say you
could easily do about 10 mols over night. This is a rough estimate based off of a Copper precipitation we did in school. In any case it is well more
than enough for 100 grams over night.
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BromicAcid
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You could use a corse grain steel wool if you just need a quick solution (mind you steel wool as the name implies is not entirely iron, there are
different metals present but in lessened precentages), but stay away from the really fine grades, some of them have a coating to inhibit oxidation,
you can tell if it has a coating by just tossing it in some hydrochloric acid, if there is a coating it will look like a clear plastic skeleton where
the iron was but otherwise it works pretty decent. You can pick up a whole bunch of steel wool in the painting supplies department of your local
hardware store. However that's just another idea, personally I would go for the aluminum wire, or go to the scrap yard and buy some lead, $.20 a
pound locally here but only blocks avalible.
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madscientist
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If you want the Pb merely for the reaction with nitrate, then you should just buy some lead sinkers from a hardware store.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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vulture
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True, but that lead tends to be contaminated with bismuth and other metals, to make it stronger.
Crystallized lead will be more reactive IMHO.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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K9
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Lead pellets, bought for use in pellet rifles, work fine for this reaction.
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KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
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from US 4,818,280
<blockquote>quote:<hr>EXAMPLE 6
150 g maltose were dissolved in a mixture of 250 ml water and 250 ml 6N NaOH. 100 g lead acetate
Pb(CH<sub>3</sub>COO)<sub>2</sub>.3H<sub>2</sub>O were then added and the mixture was heated to 105.degree. C.
with stirring. After a reaction for 3 hours at 105.degree. C. with stirring, 36 g Pb powder, corresponding to a yield of 57%, were separated by a
sequence comprising decanting, washing and centrifuging. The lead powder has a particle size below 3 .mu.m. <hr></blockquote>
the patent also has similar examples for Cu, Ag, Ni, Co, Sn, Sb, As & Bi.
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Wolfram
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How
KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun) How is this reaction happening?
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vulture
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This reaction takes advantage of the reducing effect of some sugars in basic media.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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PrimoPyro
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Just want lead?
If the means to the lead is not educational, i.e. you 'just want some damn lead' and don't care how, then this is VERY easy. I knw this
works,I've done it a lot myself.
Go buy lead pellets from a store that sells airsoft rifles and such. Lead is the most used metal for pellet rifles by far. Melt them down and skim off
any slag if you are obsessed with purity, but I can tell you that it is more than pure enough to react with acids. I don't think lead passivates
very strongly, so even if you file or grind itdown and it has a small portion of oxide in it, it should still workfor your purposes.
PrimoPyro
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unionised
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Am I missing something?
Pb++ + 2 OH- --> Pb(OH)2
Pb(OH)2 + heat --> PbO +H2O
Take the lead salt, dissolve it in water, add caustic solution, filter off the hydroxide, roast it to the oxide.
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PrimoPyro
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Not for the PbO
I don't think he's after the PbO as product; more like a reagent. PbO isn't too prestigious of a chemical, but his reaction he stated
makes something more valuble: sodium nitrite, from the widely available nitrate.
Sodium nitrite is a convenient method for "storing" nitrous acid in stable form, as the acid is readily liberated in solution by acids.
Nitrous acid is used in nitrosations and to make many organic azides and also diazonium salts which are synthetically precious groups for
transformations.
I think he's after the nitrite, and the PbO is merely the most convenient means to his end for him.
PrimoPyro
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unionised
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Thought he might be, but the post seemed to indicate that he was after PbO. I wonder if he considered electrolysis with a carbon anode.
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chemoleo
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how well does this conversion to NaNO2 work?? Does it have to be molten? What conditions are required?
Also, Kaboom, this method you state from the US patent, does it make pyrophoric lead? I seem to have read about it somewhere....
[Edited on 4-11-2003 by chemoleo]
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K9
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Wolfram
The lead will be used to form PbO with NaNO3.
Pb + NaNO3 ---> PbO + NaNO2 |
You're going to want to use molten NaNO3 with lead that's at least in small pieces. You can try grinding or filing pellets but they are
pretty soft. You should at the very least have them in small pieces to spread through.
[Edited on 4-11-2003 by K9]
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KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
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chemoleo the patent doesn't say anything about its being pyrophoric. but it might be, especially that it's oxide free and is a
"very" fine powder.
posted by VasiaPupkin on E & W:
<blockquote>quote:<hr>I heard also about lab method of boiling NaNO3 solution with porous Pb in autoclave.<hr></blockquote>
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pesco
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Do cementation using strip of lower metal in activity series a.d strip of Pb.
Connect both strips and submerge it in solution leaving connection out of solution.
You effectively creating a battery.
Benefits of this are:
1) by channeling electrons reaction happens quicker
2) by forcing Pb to deposit on Pb strip you keep the other strip clean and easy accessible to reactants - it speeds up reaction as well.
Regards
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