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pyrochemix
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Californian chemophobia
Everything these days from electrical cords to plastics to alcoholic beverages to testosterone has had california call cancerous on it why just
california? why are they such chemophobic hippies? only they call cancer on the stupidest things a friend of mine once told me "california is bordered
by ocean on one side and mountains on the other, wind comes in from the ocean swooping over dairy farms picking up feces of cows and then the wind
reaches the mountains and it gets sent higher in the atmosphere and back over near the coast where this wind is a horizontal cyclone, swooping and
swirling circulating tons of BULL!@#$" that explains the orangish "smog" which they blame on pollution even though its been around since the gold
rush, I want your opinion, why is california so quick to catch on to the political economical propaganda of global warming, environmental pollution
and everything thing else. I mean they are blaming cancer on things that we will never be exposed to enough of to cause cancer. I want your input and
please dont argue with me about global warming, I can discredit it on every level possible and provide great motives to create such BS , thanks guys
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CyrusGrey
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| Quote: |
I want your opinion, why is california so quick to catch on to the political economical propaganda of global warming, environmental pollution and
everything thing else. |
| Quote: |
I want your input and please dont argue with me about global warming, I can discredit it on every level possible and provide great motives to create
such BS |
You have inserted a somewhat vague and very strong opinion into your question. You then try to deny any debate about this opinion before it surfaces
(Which runs contrairy to a large body of evidence). I very much doubt you will get any useful answer to your inquiry because of this. It almost seems
like you are trying to intentinally provoke people into disagreeing with you.
I would like to hear your discreditations, and also to hear the motives you would give. If they use facts that are not common knowlege, please cite
your sources.
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Magpie
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I won't touch your claim about global warming. But as to why Californians are so perverse (as a class) I have some theories.
They are overcrowded. They took a natural paradise and ruined it by overpopulation and lack of mass transporation. They want to blame somebody for
their smog and cancer other than themselves so blame every substance that ever showed any cancer in any study no matter what the experimental
conditions - which may have been totally unrealistic to human exposure.
They are on the forefront of all social evils, including the one to blame and sue anyone else for their self-induced problems. Unfortunately, they
are usually trend setters. 
I have lived in California (only for 1 year) and have relatives living there. Some parts are quite nice. You have to be careful with stereotypes.
[Edited on 19-3-2008 by Magpie]
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MagicJigPipe
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Not to mention California has more laws and regulations on the books than just about every other state. We can blame people like Diane Feinstein and
former governer Gray Davis for much of that bullshit. I agree CA is full of shit and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone to live in such a superficial,
"freedom hating" society.
Apparently, they know what's best for the rest of the country.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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The_Davster
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We have already done the global warming discussion, and no ones opinions are going to be swayed here. If this thread is to remain open, it would be
inadvisable to turn it into another global warming flame war.
I blame hollywood.
It attracts the least educated with shiny things etc. These people eventually began to outnumber the intellectuals. Democratic voting did the
rest
pyrochemix: Please use punctuation including periods and capital letters, it was difficult to read your post.
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woelen
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The Netherlands is even more crowded than California, I think it is (together with some areas in the Far East) the most crowded area of the world. But
we don't have such draconic regulations on really everything as they have in California, fortunately not
So, density of population is not the key indicator here, of course it might have added to the problem, but there is more to say about that. Maybe
The_Davster is right with his Hollywood hypothesis
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Magpie
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Yes, population density per se cannot be the reason, for as you say there are many more people dense places in the world. Even in the US the eastern
seaboard is much denser overall. The Los Angeles basin, where Hollywood is located, is just plagued with urban sprawl.
People outside the US especially place way too much importance on Hollywood as often this is their portal to US culture. It gets way too much
attention from both US and non-US people in the media. It is just a small community where actors and wannabes go to make movies. I lived in the LA
basin for 1 year and paid no attention to Hollywood.
The LA basin is hemmed in by mountains and gets seabreeze from the coast. They have a lot of weather "inversions" which trap the smog they generate
with every person driving alone on their 40 mile commute to work. They know they are poisoning themselves and the California legislature reacts,
sometimes irrationaly, to try and stop this.
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chloric1
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Decadence without wisdom or intelligence, in general, is a prelude to rampant perdition.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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pyrochemix
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!@#$ I typed like 8 paragraphs and my computer decided to take a !@$@, let me sum it up
I replied to all of you
CyrusGrey- I respect your ideas and want to hear them rather than challenge them. I approached this thread with a hostile mood and that made me seem
like a A-hole who wants to stir up sh!t I`m sorry and you typed that very reasonably and professionally, I respect you for that
the rest of you: you all have good points I think they all attribute to the idea
Sorry about the spelling and punctuation but i just typed 8 and a half paragraphs with good punctuation and I`m done I also have no idea the
difference from ` and ' so I alternate
when using apostrophes
davster: thats completely true and I find it hard living in a society led by those people
I was just joking about the cyclone of bullshit and I think the problem is rooted in californias hippy movement, I like to call it the
Neo-eco-nazihippy movement
and chloric1, those words really get me, I have a section on the wall in my room made for qoutes, you have just replaced "I would fight cancer, but I
don`t have the chance to, so if I find someone with cancer I`ll beat the shit out of them" - The narrator in Fight Club, played by Edward Norton-- as
my favorite qoute
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CyrusGrey
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Thank you for your respect.  I am not really too worried about global warming,
but only because we are starting to do something about it. I'll make three major points for you here if you like:
Firstly, the global temperature is rising. And the rate it is rising is increasing. We know that both nature and humans are contributing to this, but
not to what degree.
Temperature record graphs
1* rise in global temperature sounds quite substantial to me, perhaps not in the short term, but on the span of decades/centuries.
Secondly, the effects of global warming are quite alarming. Some effects that have been correlated to a global increase in temperatures are: more
extreme weather (hurricanes, etc.), changing climates disrupting ecosystems, glaciers are caving faster (I have seen documentaries that showed the
differences in rates of glacier caving, it has doubled or tripled in the last 50-100 years). I have seen documentaries stating that if the glaciers on
Greenland were to melt, we would see a global sea level rise of 5-8 feet. This would make all homes, seaports, etc. located on the coast start
experiencing severe flooding (and knowing how stubborn people are, they will just rebuild. Imagine most coastal cities being in the same situation New
Orleans is in.) If Antarctica were to melt we would see a global sea level rise of hundreds of feet, that would mean that where I live now (Florida)
would be almost completely underwater. Wikipedia also cites quite a few other scenarios:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_global_warming
Thirdly, there are a number of positive feedback loops with global warming. One is an increase in forest fires due to higher temperature, erosion,
etc. Another is because of the fact that ice reflects a good portion of the sun's light. And the most hellish one would be if the methane hydrates at
the bottom of the ocean started melting/releasing methane. That would not just flood our coasts, that would turn earth into a planet more like Venus.
Luckily I think the cited temperature change for that to occur is 4* which is quite a lot. Try googling "clathrate gun" for that last one.
All in all, I don't really know if it would be a problem or not, but there is a good bit of evidence saying that it could be and the consequences are
very bad if it is a problem. I agree that there is a good bit of fear mongering about global warming, and people using that to their advantage, but
that always happens whenever you can make large numbers of people react to something. Certainly California has some of that going on.
I hope you found this informative. Maybe you could make some good counterpoints that I haven't heard.
I feel like I have hijacked the thread now though.
[Edited on 22-3-2008 by CyrusGrey]
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bio2
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Magpie got it right when he said.....
They are on the forefront of all social evils, including the one to blame and sue anyone else for their self-induced problems.
..................
It's easy. Many Californians are sue happy and also have some paranoia imagining that everything is dangerous.
That being said, the rural areas in CA are very nice and much different than the cities and the people in these rural areas unfortunately are not the
majority of the people that vote in all the "control freak" politicians.
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MadHatter
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Ridiculous Laws
One key word in opening post says quite a bit: HIPPIE
Another key word,in another post that says much: HOLLYWOOD
Now, that 2 key initiators of events have been pointed out, there's that 3rd den of evil: POLITICS
For politicians, there are 2 states out of the 50 that become the immediate targets of their
bullshit social agenda. California because it has the highest population(and electoral votes),
and Mayrland because it wraps around Washington, D.C. for all of Congress to see.
Fortunately, here in Maryland, we haven't had to put up with the restrictions on lab equipment
and chemicals - so far. But that may change given the existing hysteria concerning drug
and terrorist activities - real or imagined, mostly imagined from what I can see.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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MagicJigPipe
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You forgot about New York City. It's one of only 2 cities (that I know of) where handgun ownership is virtually outlawed. Washington D.C. is the
other. California has the most restrictive (except for outlawing handguns; I suppose that might be too far for a whole state, even CA) gun laws of
any other state.
I'm not trying to turn this into a discussion on gun control, I'm simply saying that the severity of gun laws in a state or city seems to be
indicative of it's practice of increasing regulations across the board. Seattle, Washington is getting bad. As another example, Alaska has some of
the least restrictive gun laws and also appears to have less other regulations as well.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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Magpie
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It doesn't surprise me that Alaska has the least restrictive laws as it has a low overall population density and the residents live closer to nature.
I would suspect the same holds true for Wyoming where they are proud of their independence and lack of regulations (its the place to buy firecrackers!
 ) New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free or Die" IIRC. I wonder how they
are doing in living up to that motto?
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
You forgot about New York City. It's one of only 2 cities (that I know of) where handgun ownership is virtually outlawed. Washington D.C. is the
other. California has the most restrictive (except for outlawing handguns; I suppose that might be too far for a whole state, even CA) gun laws of
any other state.
I'm not trying to turn this into a discussion on gun control, I'm simply saying that the severity of gun laws in a state or city seems to be
indicative of it's practice of increasing regulations across the board. Seattle, Washington is getting bad. As another example, Alaska has some of
the least restrictive gun laws and also appears to have less other regulations as well. |
Excellent post - I would point out that the most restrictive places for gun & chemical ownership are liberal states. Obviously Texas is as
backward as the hills of Kentucky but I think it is worth noticing that both parties, repub and democrats are the same.
Joe
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The_Davster
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While the comparison of gun and chemical freedoms is valid for US states, it does not explain other countries. Germany, The Netherlands, and Canada
seem alright in terms of chemical freedoms, but have very strict gun laws. However in the spectrum of what possessions are allowed, it does seem that
a propensity for banning one leads to banning other things.
Many things seem regulated in california; guns, chemicals, smoking, trans fats. Canada regulates and has attempted to ban or severely restrict 1 and
3, and more recently, 2, and 4.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
the residents live closer to nature. |
There are a lot of really really big bears up that way....
[Edited on 23-3-2008 by The_Davster]
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MagicJigPipe
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"New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free or Die" IIRC. I wonder how they are doing in living up to that motto?"
I know that either New Hampshire or Vermont is one of only two states (Alaska is the other one) where posession of a concealed handgun does not
require registration or licensing. So, if it is NH then I would say they are certainly living up to their motto.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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tumadre
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Pure Stupidity
Well this is only on topic to the extent that one more Californian regulatory board has shown that they are pure Evil.
The California Air Resources Board seeks to limit zero emission vehicle manufacture to 2500 per year
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MagicJigPipe
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Hmmmm... I don't know if that's bad or not. If people won't buy them then don't make the companies manufacture them. Fuel cells (at this time) suck
IMO. They're inefficient, expensive and only useful in certain situations. I say, if people are buying them, have them make more. If not, leave it
alone.
A methanol economy show's more promise than any other proposals IMO.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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The_Davster
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From your link:
"at the next California Air Resources Board meeting, they’re proposing to reduce the number of Zero-Emission Vehicles required of
automakers by 90%"
They are not setting a maximum, they lowered a minimum. However they worded the rest as if it meant producing too many would be illegal.
[Edited on 24-3-2008 by The_Davster]
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tumadre
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Well here is the proposed changes: a 52 page pdf.
Lets not start a war until they divide what to do with this program in a few days.
some (IMO) biased backround
I bet that the battery EV died because the automakers couldn't make a profit selling them in the minimum quantity as mandated.
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MagicJigPipe
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My battery died in my car so I went to get a few parts and a new battery. I came across a product that is used to clean the battery and "detect
acid".
It had the standard CA warning "This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer".
Guess what it contained.
Propane, butane, 2-propanol, water and sodium bicarbonate.
THESE CAUSE CANCER!!??!
We're all gonna die!!!!
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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DerAlte
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"This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer".
We need not bother. folks. "The State of California" is an inanimate object and as such "knows" absolutely FA. Even less than its politicians...
Der Alte
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Arrhenius
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Well what do you propose to change this sort of attitude/behavior in California and the rest of the US? Everyone knows that cancer kills, and that
many things may cause it, though I believe most worries are irrational (except smoking). What will this situation look like in ten years? Do you and
I have any influence over the matter, or is it hopeless?
If you agree global warming exists, then I would say you might like California for their environmental laws. The smog only gets bad in the south, but
that is somewhat attributed to wind patterns and population density. Again, how would you propose global warming be approached? I hope you won't say
that we should pump CO2 underground (as is currently underway), and our economy seems to suffer when we damper the use of oil, so what's a reasonable
approach?
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chloric1
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MagicJigPipe
My battery died in my car so I went to get a few parts and a new battery. I came across a product that is used to clean the battery and "detect
acid".
It had the standard CA warning "This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer".
Guess what it contained.
Propane, butane, 2-propanol, water and sodium bicarbonate.
THESE CAUSE CANCER!!??!
We're all gonna die!!!! |
I tell you Magic, its the 2-propanol. I once rented this property and a temporary roomate of mine wathcing me organize my belongins saw me with a
bottle of 2-bromopropanol in my hand. He said " Oh no!, chemicals with
numbers in there name are REALLY nasty! They cause cancer or something!" LMAO!!
This guy was one of those crooked opportunistic stock broker types who cleaned up from investing life savings for little old ladies. These are the
kind of people you cannot trust.
I like some of the rural areas of California between Fresno and Sequoia National Forest. Got some neat pics of Success lake. It gets stuffy there
July and August though! Phew! I know I know its a dry heat but its still hot.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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