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PHILOU Zrealone
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Where was the detonator placed...I have the feeling it was on the right side...right?
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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greenlight
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Yes Philou, you are correct
Be good, otherwise be good at it
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PHILOU Zrealone
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How did I figure this out, you will ask
I simply noticed that the lower left branch of the deto-printed "S" is much deeper than the uper right part...hence my conclusion...the cavity on the
left acted as a shaped charge while the same cavity with an opposed orientation did not...so the detonation was obviously coming from the right side.
Also there is a strange diffuse patern at the right of the SM printing...   
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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greenlight
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Yes, the detonator was probably right on top of that lower part of the S forming the shaped charge effect on the plate.
The unusual pattern on the right side is were I added an extra 5g portion with a smiley face which can be faintly seen but didn't turn out properly..
i forgot to mention it in the original post.
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markx
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Quote: Originally posted by greenlight  | Did a quick test with an older batch of PE and thought this might be the right place to post the pictures as the test demonstrates the Munroe effect.
I just took a 25 gram block and embossed SM (for sciencemadness) in it in
mirrored letters before placing it down on a 1.5 inch thick steel plate.
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Very cool execution of the Munroe effect, Greenlight
A bit of old experimentation from my side below....did not turn out too bad either :
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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greenlight
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Thanks Markx, nice result as well. What explosive did you use for that experiment?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by markx | | Quote: Originally posted by greenlight | Did a quick test with an older batch of PE and thought this might be the right place to post the pictures as the test demonstrates the Munroe effect.
I just took a 25 gram block and embossed SM (for sciencemadness) in it in
mirrored letters before placing it down on a 1.5 inch thick steel plate.
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Very cool execution of the Munroe effect, Greenlight
A bit of old experimentation from my side below....did not turn out too bad either :
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Nice detono-graphy.
Just as beautifull as the leaves you let dry into a book .
Of course to do the same with your process would make heavy books for bodybuilders .
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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nitro-genes
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Wow, that's just a stunning picture, yours turned out much better than my attempt at this! Even the colour matches, blotted that chlorophyl right into
the steel, maybe it can still do photosynthesis . Leaf-shaped charges, very
unconventional... I remember seeing sort of the same technique for shooting holograms in very hard metals, resolution was in the nanometer range
IIRC. You could probably magnify using a microscope and discern some of the finer leaf structures as well probably.
[Edited on 24-2-2017 by nitro-genes]
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markx
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| Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes | Wow, that's just a stunning picture, yours turned out much better than my attempt at this! Even the colour matches, blotted that chlorophyl right into
the steel, maybe it can still do photosynthesis . Leaf-shaped charges, very
unconventional... I remember seeing sort of the same technique for shooting holograms in very hard metals, resolution was in the nanometer range
IIRC. You could probably magnify using a microscope and discern some of the finer leaf structures as well probably.
[Edited on 24-2-2017 by nitro-genes] |
Thanks for the kind words, Nitro-genes!
Yea...this sample turned out most impressive and the fine detail was just stunningly precicely stamped into the metal. Although I tried to clean it up
afterwards by leaching slightly in citric acid solution to get the soot washed off. That was not a good idea, as it made the image much flatter in
appearance, still a very successful test though.
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Just noticed the patern...
OAK Leaf :-) into a troll's footprint
[Edited on 27-2-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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markx
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Made a forming tool for more conventional applications :
   
Works pretty good, but the copper has to be annealed several times inbetween of the pressing or the tip of liner will become too stretched and develop
cracks.
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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nitro-genes
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| Quote: Originally posted by markx | | Yea...this sample turned out most impressive and the fine detail was just stunningly precicely stamped into the metal. Although I tried to clean it
up afterwards by leaching slightly in citric acid solution to get the soot washed off. That was not a good idea, as it made the image much flatter in
appearance, still a very successful test though. |
Maybe finely polishing the plate before shooting some delicate structures into it may help getting even higher resolution. Noticing from the unblasted
area of the plate, the surface is kind of rough, which would act like "background noise" for the image produced. Wondering if using a lotus leaf
(water repelling nanostructures) would result in a metal surface having some interesting properties (May not be similar since a negative is
produced). These kind of things may even have some unforeseen applications as well.
[Edited on 27-2-2017 by nitro-genes]
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markx
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| Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes |
Maybe finely polishing the plate before shooting some delicate structures into it may help getting even higher resolution. Noticing from the unblasted
area of the plate, the surface is kind of rough, which would act like "background noise" for the image produced. Wondering if using a lotus leaf
(water repelling nanostructures) would result in a metal surface having some interesting properties (May not be similar since a negative is
produced). These kind of things may even have some unforeseen applications as well.
[Edited on 27-2-2017 by nitro-genes] |
Of course using a flat polished surface will give immensly better resolution....the current test was executed in the spirit of "what the heck, let's
see what happens" and had zero preparative actions done to enhance the contact surfaces.
That is a very captivating idea about the lotus leaf example ! There are many
interesting structures in nature that once copied onto manmade materials could reveal extraordinary properties. One could possibly also get a more or
less positive image on the witness plate after reshooting the negative against a new witness surface. Technically this may prove to be quite
complicated though, especially if the pattern is very fine and stretches into the field of nanostructures....
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Of course using a flat polished surface will give better resolution....Better is use a annealing metal, this is soft aluminium plate 0,5 mm.
............................Dr.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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NeonPulse
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Recently i was asking an airconditioning specialist for these little copper things they called helmets. they are found in brand new aircon units to
prevent anything from getting into the system before installation. they come in various sizes and i was able to get quite a few of them. this gave me
the means to try some micro sized shaped charges with an effective looking liner. The inspiration was from the little commercial blasting caps with
the cavity in the end which i thought why not try that idea but slightly larger? these little liners would also fit into a smaller tube if needed so
why not try it?
so i proceeded to get some 10mm Al tubing i had around and coated the inside with some paint before J.B welding 6 of these liners into 6X 10mm
diameter 40mm long sections of tube.
For each of these little devices i used a filler of 2.1g 2-5 ETN/PETN melt cast and 250mg of lead picrate/azide clathrate. - this is why i lined the
inside of the tubes prior to filling them. we are still unsure of the molten ETN reacting with Al. i have not actually heard of a case of ETN actually
detonating in this manner but there has to be some substance to this claim though..... each charge was wired to fier electrically and 4 of them were
given copper wire legs as standoff which i marked at the required distance to be bent with pliers on site.
So i used 3 each of the bell/cone shaped liners and 3 of the hemisperical liners. one of each was given no standoff one 15mm and the final 20mm.
obviously the conical ones seemed to perform the best giving nearly 4mm penetration into the steel bar i had as the receiver hoever the 20mm
hemispherical did leave a little divit on the back side of the steel where the others did not. i was only able to remove the copper carrots from the
1st hemi and the two conicals so i couldn't really compare the results as a whole but the conical ones did look pretty promising. i cannot be entirely
sure of the effectiveness of the hemisperical but if there was enough force to completely embed the copper into mid carbon steel bar and nearlt split
it completely lengthwise it has to be pretty effective. there was a fracture that ran nearly the whole length of the 20mm bar. i still have many of
these little things left to try out and of larger sizes too.
Man were these little charges loud for their small sizes. it would have been about as loud as a shotgun going off.
 
[Edited on 25-3-2017 by NeonPulse]
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NeonPulse
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and the results. the first lots are befor i attempted to remove the carrots and some after.
  
[Edited on 25-3-2017 by NeonPulse]
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Microtek
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How thick are these liners? In my own experiments with small conical shaped charges, I got 19 mm penetration with similar sized charges, but the
liners were made of thin copper foil, rolled into cones.
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joseph6355
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I have a piece of 10 inches long and 3 inches thick steel that needs to get cut across its length.
I don't have a plasma cutter neither an acetylene gas torch. The only thing I have is a 4.1/2" angle grinder. It would be a pain in the ass to
actually split it in half using only an angle grinder.
Is it possible to make a shaped charge that will cut it in half for me?
First I get a square steel tube, make a cut in the center, cut it to a length of 10 inches, and then add a bent piece of copper that will get
liquefied after the explosion and produce the molten jet. Will it work?
There is also the danger of shrapnel. I'm basically making an elongated grenade. The steel tubing would probably fragment and throw shrapnel
everywhere, so I was thinking about burying it deep inside the dirt before detonating it. And also if I use Picric Acid as the main charge, I would
need to coat the steel and copper surfaces before casting anything.
Here are some drawings that exemplifies what I said above:
https://i.imgur.com/tRw03if.png
Edit: [img] tag removed due to oversized image.
[Edited on 17-1-2018 by joseph6355]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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You will need the base of copper triangle 2 inch and copper 3 mm thick. And EM over 7500 m/s. Distance 3 inches.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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Fulmen
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As much as I approve of the solution I seriously doubt if it will be worth the effort. The chances of getting a successful SC on the first try isn't
all that great, can you afford to destroy the target? Liptakovs suggestion would be the absolute minimum size, and will require both high performance
explosives and a very accurately constructed charge. A more reasonable size would be 3".
The most sensible approach would probably be to drill a line of holes and then cut the remainder with the angle grinder.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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joseph6355
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You mean 2 inches wide and 3 mm thick?
Picric Acid gets close do 7500 m/s, but is not enough. ETN seems the right candidate.
How much ETN would I actually need? I have no idea on how to design the apparatus, like how big it should be, what dimensions... Stuff like that.
I really don't want to waste all day cutting a piece of steel this thick. Too much residue would come off of the cutting disc, which when mixed with
any liquid will form a thick mud that impregnates everything and is hard to clean.
| Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen | As much as I approve of the solution I seriously doubt if it will be worth the effort. The chances of getting a successful SC on the first try isn't
all that great, can you afford to destroy the target? Liptakovs suggestion would be the absolute minimum size, and will require both high performance
explosives and a very accurately constructed charge. A more reasonable size would be 3".
The most sensible approach would probably be to drill a line of holes and then cut the remainder with the angle grinder. |
You mean 3 inches wide? WOW. So we are talking about very high amounts of explosives then?
A piece of 3 in wide and 10 in long square steel tubing would need a lot of HE to get fulfilled.
Well, it was worth at least discussing the possibility of doing so.
I'd rather spend 3 hours cutting steel and clean all the mess than to buy expensive chemicals and babysit a chemical reaction that would probably take
more time than cutting the plate with the angle grinder. 
Thanks guys.
[Edited on 17-1-2018 by joseph6355]
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Fulmen
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Sadly shaped charges are incredible costly and inefficient, they are only employed when no simpler method will work.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Of course, that mechanical cutting will always easily than shaped charge...
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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greenlight
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But wheres the fun in that haha
Seriously though, it would be feasible if you were cutting it width ways, but length ways would use a lot more materials and I think would be hard to
get an accurate cut.
Be good, otherwise be good at it
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NeonPulse
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| Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355 | I have a piece of 10 inches long and 3 inches thick steel that needs to get cut across its length.
I don't have a plasma cutter neither an acetylene gas torch. The only thing I have is a 4.1/2" angle grinder. It would be a pain in the ass to
actually split it in half using only an angle grinder.
Is it possible to make a shaped charge that will cut it in half for me?
First I get a square steel tube, make a cut in the center, cut it to a length of 10 inches, and then add a bent piece of copper that will get
liquefied after the explosion and produce the molten jet. Will it work?
There is also the danger of shrapnel. I'm basically making an elongated grenade. The steel tubing would probably fragment and throw shrapnel
everywhere, so I was thinking about burying it deep inside the dirt before detonating it. And also if I use Picric Acid as the main charge, I would
need to coat the steel and copper surfaces before casting anything.
Here are some drawings that exemplifies what I said above:
https://i.imgur.com/tRw03if.png
Edit: [img] tag removed due to oversized image.
[Edited on 17-1-2018 by joseph6355] |
Something like this? I used a linear setup a few days ago. It was 17.5 mm thick and a copper lined linear charge cut it. It used 150mls of PLX. The
problem is that the steel is now bent. If that’s an issue it’s best to stick to the angle grinder...
I even gave the charge a name. I called it the Bangsaw.
[Edited on 19-1-2018 by NeonPulse]
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