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NEMO-Chemistry
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Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR  | | A little bit off topic but re Atom Scientific: there's another company, Source Chemicals (sourcechemicals.com), which has a suspiciously similar
looking website. It is a registered company in itself but there must be some connection because one of the directors of Atom Scientific Ltd was
previously a director of now-dissolved Web Trade Pro Ltd, the other director of which is the sole director of Source Chemicals Ltd.
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AFAIK its the company that belongs to the sacked director.
Its a shame but stay away from the solvent shop AKA Darrent Chemicals, they got real problems at the moment.
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DavidJR
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Funny you should mention that actually. I placed an order with Darrant about a week ago, haven't got it yet. So much for "fast reliable delivery".
[Edited on 19-2-2018 by DavidJR]
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | Funny you should mention that actually. I placed an order with Darrant about a week ago, haven't got it yet. So much for "fast reliable delivery".
[Edited on 19-2-2018 by DavidJR] |
Give them some time, they have horrendous financial problems. It's a real shame because they did decent prices, i had to stop using them.
Some people never get their stuff, I kind of feel sorry for them. they are in a spiral at the moment, the more orders they mess up or are slow with.
The less orders they get, so it gets worse.
The reason they got into trouble in the first place isnt pleasant, they supplied 'another' company. The 'other' company stitched them up. Eventually
going directly to another bottle plant.
I wont mention the company for obvious reasons, but I have stopped using them now.
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DavidJR
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How do you even get all this gossip? 
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DavidJR
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I finally have a response from the Home Office re my FOIA request.
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Thank you for your e-mail of 24 January 2018, in which you which you ask for information relating to Explosives Precursors and Poisons (EPP) Licences.
Your request has been handled as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. You specifically ask for:
1. The total number of applications for an EPP licence which have been made.
2. The total number of applications for an EPP licence which have been granted.
As of 31/01/2018, there have been 388 applications for an EPP licence. Of those 388, 337 have been granted.
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So 87% of applications for an EPP licence have been granted.
[Edited on 21-2-2018 by DavidJR]
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18thTimeLucky
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Wow, that is a lot more licenses than I was expecting to have been granted - and with 87% the odds are pretty good for a serious application.
Makes me wonder what would happen to those whose applications are rejected. If they don't want you having those regulated substances I am sure they
would doubt you to not think "oh ok, those chemicals I really wanted I am not allowed to have... hehe screw that I'll get hold of them anyways they
don't have to know!" If your application failed would you then be put on a watch-list or similar to make sure that would not happen?
Yep, I have a chemistry blog!
18thtimelucky.wordpress.com
"Amateur chemistry does seem like being in a relationship with someone very beautiful and seductive but has expensive taste, farts a lot and doesn't
clean up after themselves, but you love them anyway" - a dear friend |
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | I finally have a response from the Home Office re my FOIA request.
| Quote: |
Thank you for your e-mail of 24 January 2018, in which you which you ask for information relating to Explosives Precursors and Poisons (EPP) Licences.
Your request has been handled as a request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. You specifically ask for:
1. The total number of applications for an EPP licence which have been made.
2. The total number of applications for an EPP licence which have been granted.
As of 31/01/2018, there have been 388 applications for an EPP licence. Of those 388, 337 have been granted.
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So 87% of applications for an EPP licence have been granted.
[Edited on 21-2-2018 by DavidJR] |
There is some missing information in those figures.
If you do a FOI by region, you find Manchester has no licenses. Infact it has no applications, they are ignored and do not make it far in the process.
I keep saying this and its really important to understand. If you do home chemistry and nothing else, no metal recovery no 'experimental pyrotechnic
research' or something of that nature, then forget it.
Two very big misconceptions about the license, One is any LTD company can by the chemicals, this is not true. The supplier does due diligence checks,
part of this is to goto companies house and check your SIC codes.
SIC codes are what describes your business main activity, a business may have upto 4. They are tight in scope, so pick dress maker and try to get epp
type chemicals, you wont get supplied.
Do a FOI on what is the main class of EPP, by this ask for reason given on application. 60% are precious metal recovery and alot are experimental
pyro research. even those that dont actually do pyro much, use that reason on the form.
Alot of think they have the EPP thing covered, alot with a EPP and who have had visits think they are legal, EPP is misunderstood in the UK.
Alot of people contact the police etc before applying for the license, none of those who are told not to apply are on the figures.
EPP is a PITA, expect a great deal of travel to get the chemicals (makes that 2 ltr of nitric acid expensive). Then you have the paperwork side.
List as an example Nitric acid, list reason of use plant food formulation, then get found having used it for metal extraction....
Many of the granted license will be sole trader businesses who didnt want to go the LTD route, artists are pretty high on the list.
People like Bloggers, were visited and told to apply, he was however given some wrong info. In the beginning of EPP, it was 6 months after it started
that my local police even knew it was a 'thing!'.
Please please dont focus on, a EPP gets me X,Y,Z chemicals. It is not that simple, also consider not every police force has a planning officer, so
check yourself with your local council. Getting a EPP may breach your local planning laws.
For example experimental pyro, yes you might get a EPP and most people in MOST areas will, but then part of your house may have become a business. You
may be in breach of planning law, not so sure with England but up here its a muddle.
I have a Ltd company, it has ALL the correct SIC codes including education and chemical manufacture. Yet I am being told I need a EPP, according to
the law I dont.
But do you want to risk going to court and finding out? Bloggers did and it didnt go his way. He had reasons to believe he was right, everyone focuses
on the charge and the paper report.
Few if any have read the actual court transcript, also he was done at the start of the process. His case has actually altered how many police forces
handle applications now.
We all know he had a legit business, but in the end he couldnt use that as a defense. I know of several on here looking 2-5 years currently if found
out.
But UK police dont read SM and dont put effort into finding out whos nickname links to which real person do they.
WRONG, its really easy for them to link you to SM and yes its read (kind of) its automated. Only ever been been one place I have EVER mentioned copper
nitrate being made from Nitric acid.
I posted a pick of it as well, one the first things i was asked about was to see my copper nitrate.
[Edited on 22-2-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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DavidJR
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I tried asking about the number of applications/licenses for each category of substance but they declined to answer that as they estimated it'd exceed
the cost limit for FOIA requests. Of course, it took a month to tell me that. And then when I restricted my request to only the overall numbers, that
took a month too. I fail to see how my initial request would have exceeded the cost limit if they had licence data in some kind of structured
database, or even just a spreadsheet. I therefore assume that they only have the information in unstructured documents, which seems odd. I'm not
confident that I'd get the info you suggest I ask for.
Personally I'd rather not register a limited company at this point in time. Perhaps in the future though, as I have been selling some (photographic)
chemicals on eBay. But for now I don't think it's worth the additional paperwork etc, especially if it wouldn't solve the EPP issue anyway.
I'm well aware that anything I write online can/will be read by the relevant authorities. Probably more aware than most, actually, though I won't go
into why publicly. Also, I've given more than enough info in this thread to be easily identifiable by just about anyone.
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DavidJR
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Also, I would be interested in reading the court transcript for the blogfast/Gert Meyers case - do you know how I can get a copy of it?
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | Also, I would be interested in reading the court transcript for the blogfast/Gert Meyers case - do you know how I can get a copy of it?
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There are links but you might be passed the acquire time. Slightly odd as it was public info, bust dosnt seem to be now. Plus he is out now, so i
dunno how i feel about posting a copy...
Look in the local area, it should be available.
All a Ltd company does is swap one set of problems for a different set. Interesting they gave you that answer, it fits with a reason i was given
verbally, but has nothing to do with money.
Trust me you would have been identified from post one.
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DavidJR
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Oh, I know.
Also, re forming a ltd company, do you have any problems ordering from the likes of sigma aldrich/merck who refuse to sell to individuals?
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR |
Oh, I know.
Also, re forming a ltd company, do you have any problems ordering from the likes of sigma aldrich/merck who refuse to sell to individuals?
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I havnt tried Sigma, i have talked to fischer scientific and as long as i am not looking for credit, i can have an account. i dont have enough trading
history to pass the credit score, so i have to pay at time of order.
Sigma is likely to sell to me, but i would expect something like a £500-£1000 minimum order value. At least to begin with, i have set my company up
carefully.
There is no reason why i couldnt get a pay on order account with Sigma.
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DavidJR
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Actually, that alone could be reason enough to form a ltd company for many people here. Unless you feel like reselling stuff to us....
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | | Actually, that alone could be reason enough to form a ltd company for many people here. Unless you feel like reselling stuff to us....
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It would depend on the stuff and amount etc.
For clarity in dont in principle have a problem with this, but before people go jumping with joy......
Anything on a list is on a list, dosnt matter if i sell it to you or they sell it to you, i would require the same paperwork they do.
In other words i wont supply something like conc nitric acid if you dont have a EPP, if you do then yes i would supply you but you have the same
restrictions like me seeing the license for the first time etc.
If its things that are hard to get and not on a list, then sure i see no reason why i wouldnt, but I am not set up as a supplier. if i did this on any
scale i will need to change a SIC number or you are going to have to pay £10 a year to join a science collective.
I am set up partly as a outreach service, hence the joining fee. Oddly supplying to jome chemists who are a member of a outreach /learning project is
different to general supply.
The other restriction is time, its likely i will get min order amounts (value wise) from sigma, Fischer isnt so bad they want orders over £250 and
for some the things i do this is pretty easy to do fortnightly.
So depends who wants what, i am not ordering £450 of stuff i dont really need for someone to get £50 of something each week.
I could do a order monthly if enough people, or if i can justify sigma stuff myself. But i am open to ideas and to be honest it may help me. But be
totally clear i intend to stay completely legal.
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DavidJR
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Yes, I was meaning stuff that isn't on the list of regulated substances re EPP licensing, but that's just hard to get from anywhere that will sell to
individuals.
Fisher seems like a better option then. I wouldn't mind waiting to reach the min order value.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | Yes, I was meaning stuff that isn't on the list of regulated substances re EPP licensing, but that's just hard to get from anywhere that will sell to
individuals.
Fisher seems like a better option then. I wouldn't mind waiting to reach the min order value. |
Or oddly enough look at this http://www.betterequipped.co.uk/science-equipment/school-lab...
They wont sell to non education places for anything in the non safe chem bit. BUT the outreach bit is connected to a school, it would be easy to order
from them as its £75 then free postage, they only deliver to the school, but i can pick up and repost.
Quality is very very good and many schools use them.We also use these for the outreach side, again they deliver to the main school we work with. But
we pay for it and the chems are ours, its just a policy issue with them and nothing else.
Sorry to bang on about EPP, truth is i got a paper on Oxycodone. It mentions how they monitored the effect of the new tamper proof formular.
They did it by monitoring some forums and something like 48,000 posts, they used a keyword automated search!! i got the paper some place that explains
it, the point is..... I got to be explicit because what i say here is picked up.
Not with Oxycodone (well it wasnt lol), but other things, i just dont need some program flagging me for no reason.
[Edited on 27-2-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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DavidJR
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Ah, yes I've come across that company before, and they do have many useful chemicals and non-jointed glassware at good prices, but anything they deem
hazardous they won't sell to individuals. Aka all of the fun toys!
Also that's very interesting, I assume you mean the paper by McNaughton et al?
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | Ah, yes I've come across that company before, and they do have many useful chemicals and non-jointed glassware at good prices, but anything they deem
hazardous they won't sell to individuals. Aka all of the fun toys!
Also that's very interesting, I assume you mean the paper by McNaughton et al? |
I think thats the paper, i will check. I have access to all there fun toys BTW.
Its just they are delivered for the project to the one the schools and i pick up from there. They are aware of the arrangement and fine with it.
They wont make an exception for me because it would make it difficult to apply the same rules to others who might be in a similar situation.
So i am pretty sure as long as its legal i can help you.
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DavidJR
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Just tried to order (among a handful of other chemicals) dichloromethane from APC and they sent me an email stating something vague about 2014
precursor legislation (but DCM isn’t on the list of regulated substances re EPP licensing). Stated that they will only sell to businesses/sole
traders/holders of a home office license. Anyway I am a sole trader so I filled in the declaration of use form that they asked for, specifying the use
as lab solvent/reagent. They didn’t accept that and want clarification as to the use as it’s a residential address. I’m not really sure what to
tell them beyond “lab solvent”. Am I meant to list every possible thing I might want to dissolve in DCM?
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Swinfi2
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If ACP is giving you trouble over non-restricted substances theirs always free market competition. I found this seller today, not used them yet but
their prices seem very low.
let me know how it goes?
EDIT: I just read their reviews, looks like their cashing out on that 97.3% rating and scamming people 
EDIT2: Damn, I saw your post about darrant chemicals, but didn't put 2+2 together with it being "solvent-shop", thanks for the warning.
[Edited on 6-3-2018 by Swinfi2]
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DavidJR
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Warning: stay well away from Darrant Distribution Ltd/Darrant Chemicals/solvent-shop (ebay). See my other thread here: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=80...
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woelen
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | | Just tried to order (among a handful of other chemicals) dichloromethane from APC and they sent me an email stating something vague about 2014
precursor legislation (but DCM isn’t on the list of regulated substances re EPP licensing). Stated that they will only sell to businesses/sole
traders/holders of a home office license. Anyway I am a sole trader so I filled in the declaration of use form that they asked for, specifying the use
as lab solvent/reagent. They didn’t accept that and want clarification as to the use as it’s a residential address. I’m not really sure what to
tell them beyond “lab solvent”. Am I meant to list every possible thing I might want to dissolve in DCM? |
It looks like APC is more Roman than the Pope.
Last week I purchased DCM 99.8% (300 ml) without any paperwork and no questions asked. DCM is not on any list as far as I know.
It looks like we lost another nice source of chemicals. In the past I ordered quite a few interesting chemicals from APC (they also shipped to NL,
according to ADR regulations, for a fixed price, so when combined, shipping was quite cheap). Right now apparently they lost interest in the market of
private customers. As others said, find another seller and purchase DCM from that seller.
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DavidJR
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To clarify, they didn't say that they will no longer sell anything at all to non-businesses, just a certain list of products which for some bizarre
reason includes DCM.
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DavidJR
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Also, there does seem to be an EU regulation prohibiting the use of DCM as a paint stripper, and this was mentioned in the declaration of use form
they sent. However even though I made it clear that I don't intend to use it as a paint stripper, they still aren't satisfied unless I can provide a
more detailed statement than just "lab solvent".
Why is it such a hassle to buy DCM of all things?!
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woelen
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This is the
REACH regulation. As I wrote before, many chemicals may not be marketed anymore as a constituent of consumer products. E.g. sodium dichromate in
mordants, DCM in paint stripper, arsenic compounds in wood treatment. In such products, usually the chemical is present, unknown to the user (of
course it is mentioned on the label, but still, the user does not buy it explicitly for that chemical), but by using it in consumer products large
amounts get into the environment and many people are exposed to the chemical. REACH, however, does not tell anything about the sale and use of the
pure chemical, mentioned by its chemical name (and not some brand name or product name), and used in a lab. REACH hence will make many chemicals
non-OTC, they disappear from the shelves of hardware stores, drugstores, supermarkets, but you still can buy the pure chemical from chemical supply
houses. It of course is up to the chemical supply house whether they want to sell it to individuals or not.
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