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JohnWW
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Yes, they would smell even worse than hydrogen selenide and telluride, and dimethylselenium and dimethyltellurium. However, there was nothing in the
news about Col. Litvinenko smelling bad before he died, in addition to losing his hair and becoming visibly jaundiced.
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Jdurg
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All I know is that I just came back from a business trip to London and I'm hoping that I didn't unwillingly add a new element to my collection!  
\"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists of the unmistakable scent of broccoli, and usually
requires wiping afterwards.\"
http://maddox.xmission.com. |
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JohnWW
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I have heard that Col. Litvinenko has just been buried, after a prolonged autopsy, in a heavy sealed lead-lined coffin. This was because of the
radioactivity of his body, in which the Po is being converted to volative compounds, and because the undertakers could not safely drain the blood from
his body in order to inject formalin embalming fluid. Also, another Russian has fallen seriously ill with Po poisoning; I wonder if it was the one who
slipped the Po into Litvinenko's food or drink.
Litvinenko was stated to have converted to Islam on his deathbead, but in view of the state he was in, that would be hardly a valid conversion.
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JohnWW
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061208/ap_on_re_eu/poisoned_spy
- the latest news - it looks as if the mystery is starting to unravel, as the two Russians who met Col. Litvinenko in the Millennium Hotel have
themselves been found to be also heavily contaminated with Po-210. The suspicion is, naturally, that it was they who poisoned the Colonel by spiking
his food or tea:
Hotel bar is focus of ex-spy death probe
By DAVID STRINGER, Associated Press Writer
LONDON - Detectives investigating the poisoning death of an ex-KGB agent focused Friday on a meeting at a London hotel bar where at least 10 people
may have been exposed to the radioactive isotope found in his body. Colleagues in Moscow hoped to question one of those people, Andrei Lugovoi —
another former KGB agent and security consultant named by British law enforcement officials as a key witness in the poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko.
Lugovoi met Litvinenko at the bar of London's Millennium Hotel on Nov. 1 — the day Litvinenko fell ill.
Russian media reported that both Lugovoi and his business associate at that meeting, Dmitry Kovtun, also showed signs of radioactive contamination. On
Friday, the Interfax news agency reported that he had radiation damage to his intestines and kidneys.
Interfax also quoted unidentified medical sources as saying that checks of Lugovoi found that some of his organs had malfunctioned, but Lugovoi
himself later told the ITAR-Tass news agency that he was feeling "normal." Seven hotel employees who were working at the London bar that day also
tested positive for exposure to radiation, British health officials said.
Among the others contaminated by the poison is Mario Scaramella, an Italian security consultant working with the Italian parliament who also met the
Russian in London Nov. 1. Scaramella was found to have significant quantities of polonium-210 in his body and there are concerns for his health, but
he has not developed symptoms of radiation poisoning. Marina Litvinenko, the agent's wife, also received a dose of the poison, but doctors say it was
not enough to make her sick.
Dr. Michael Clarke of Britain's Health Protection Agency said the polonium-210 poisoning likely was carried out at the hotel bar — but a British
police official said no conclusions had been drawn. The official said the venue was an integral part of the case, speaking on condition of anonymity
because she was not authorized to speak about the case. "People go to bars to drink, eat and smoke — all of which are possibilities for the
poisoning," Clarke told The Associated Press.
Litvinenko's friend Alex Goldfarb said the former spy sipped tea during the meeting, while Lugovoi said he recalls ordering a bottle of gin. Clarke
said polonium could have been discreetly added to food or drink. "If it was some sort of liquid, it could have been — as in James Bond — a little
magic capsule," Clarke said Thursday, the day Litvinenko was buried in a specially sealed coffin.
Litvinenko died at a London hospital on Nov. 23. Doctors said he was poisoned with a massive dose of the radioactive substance. Traces of polonium-210
have been found at several sites he visited in recent weeks, including the stadium of London's Arsenal soccer club and the British Embassy in Moscow.
Health officials said traces of polonium also had been uncovered at the Parkes Hotel in London's Mayfair neighborhood — where Lugovoi stayed Oct.
16.
Russian Prosecutor General Yuri Chaika said Wednesday that British police would not be allowed to question him directly, but could attend while
Russian officers conducted the interrogation. Andrei Romashov, a lawyer for Lugovoi, denied a report that Kovtun had slipped into a coma after meeting
Russian investigators and Scotland Yard detectives. Interfax later cited a source as saying Kovtun had regained consciousness but was in serious
condition. It said Lugovoi doing better than Kovtun but also showed signs of contamination. Lugovoi told ITAR-Tass that he did not trust reports about
Kovtun's condition and urged an end to "speculation" about their condition.
Russian prosecutors announced Thursday they had opened a criminal case into the murder of Litvinenko and attempted murder of Kovtun. A criminal probe
in Russia would allow suspects to be prosecuted there. Officials previously have said Russia would not extradite any suspects in Litvinenko's killing.
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Organikum
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Regarding the incredible Polonium trace through Europe it meanwhile looks to me as some ex-KGB guys stole the polonium in Russia for the moneys worth
($30 million or so). But not being the super spies they didnt really realize what they got there (or maybe they got willingly misinformed) and they
handled it without any care. It might simply come out as an accident by stupidity and greed.
I believe it is a misconception to think that those defectors are first tier, they are not. Historically with very few exceptions the disgrunteled
underachievers tend to defect. Maybe they were tricked - but that would be solely their problem and responsibility.
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JohnWW
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For the sake of completeness:
In the light of my observation in the more recent thread http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13272 about tellurium,
I am fairly sure that, because of the microscopic amount of polonium-210 needed to be fatal to a person through its intense alpha-radioactivity
(half-life 183 days), something like 0.7 nanogram per kg by injection or ingestion being an estimated LD50 dose, and also the fact that Po-210 can be
produced and safely handled only in very small quantities by the bombardment of Bi-209 with neutrons (Bi-210 quickly decaying to Po-210 by
beta-emission) or protons, the Po-210 would have been "bulked up" by the Russian KGB to a macroscopic quantity of material by mixing a compound of it
with the similar compound of tellurium. This would have been necessary in order for Lugovoi to handle and add the stuff to Col. Litvinenko's pot of
tea in the hotel in London where they met in November 2006, to poison the latter.
It is quite common for microscopic amounts of highly radioactive elements to be mixed in this way with macroscopic amounts of homologous elements as a
"carrier", to bulk them up. For example, Ra compounds are mixed with the same compounds of Ba. The mixed compound of Po and Te used by Lugovoi as the
poison would, of necessity, have been one that was readily soluble in warm water. The Po-210 initially produced from Bi-209 metal would have been as
the free element, so to this elemental Te would have been added, and the mixture made into a water-soluble (without hydrolysis) compound. It seems to
be that the most likely mixed Po and Te compound made by the KGB would have been either the dioxides, or else, if these are too volatile, the Na or K
polonite(IV) and tellurite(IV). Polonates(VI) are too unstable and strongly oxidizing, compared to tellurates(VI), for the purpose.
So, because the microscopic amount of Po compound mixed with a macroscopic amount of the Te compound administered by Lugovoi, it is very likely
indeed, as I had surmised above, that in the days between his poisoning and death in hospital, Col. Litvinenko would have become very smelly (as well
as jaundiced due to liver damage), due to the formation in his body of mixed H2Po, H2Te, and volatile organic compounds of Po(II) and Te(II). This
strong garlicy odor is characteristic of ingestion or absorption of significant amounts of Te or Se, which occurred to hard-rock gold miners in
Colorado who mined ore containing the rare mineral tellurite, (Au,Ag)2Te, which is also the chief source of Te.
However, none of the media reports about Col. Litvinenko's poisoning mentioned his becoming very smelly, nor is it mentioned in the Wikipedia articles
about him, viz. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_assassinat... ; see also http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Alexander+Litvinenko
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watson.fawkes
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Quote: Originally posted by JohnWW  | | It is quite common for microscopic amounts of highly radioactive elements to be mixed in this way with macroscopic amounts of homologous elements as a
"carrier", to bulk them up. |
A bit of web searching seems to indicate that Pb is a common carrier for
polonium. If so, I'd guess for poisoning it would be used as lead acetate, soluble and sweet to the taste. Added to tea it wouldn't be an immediate
tip-off.
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JohnWW
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jdurg | | All I know is that I just came back from a business trip to London and I'm hoping that I didn't unwillingly add a new element to my collection!
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No, you definitely would not want to have polonium-210 in your polonies, served at the same London hotel
where the poisoning occurred, despite both being named after Poland!
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manimal
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In the 60s, the CIA initiated a scheme to sprinkle thallium-laced powder in Fidel Castro's boots in order to make his hair fall out, embarassing him
in the public's eyes. Alongside plans to slip him LSD and provide him with an exploding cigar, it was one in a long list of comical stunts to
assassinate and/or discredit Castro.
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