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Formatik
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| Quote: | | and it seems the author never did what he is describing. |
That also goes for the "copper fulminate" in the other book of his above. We can conclude that at least some of the procedures are fudged meanderings.
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len1
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| Quote: |
So, are you saying too that a hot gas rises, as say in a mirage, because the viscosity of the colder air is less?
A related observation also has puzzled me. Some observers have said that upstream air in a vent was contaminated by another gas introduced
downstream. I resolved this in my own mind as due to diffusion at the staionary boundary layer along the duct wall. Does this seem a reasonable
explanation? |
I would say hot air rises because it is lighter than cold. The viscosity comes into it because in its absence the hot air would just 'diffuse' into
equilibrium and not rise as a clump.
The kinetic theory of the ideal gas assumes gas particles dont interact and are independent
If a molecule of say chlorine is released in the lab, after a while it is equally likely to be found at any height. Not so with a chlorine molecule
in the midst of a flaskfull of other chlorine molecules, it is then much more likely to be found near the floor after a short while. So the
phenomenon relies on interaction between molecules, in particular viscosity of gases - the molecules can not be here assumed independent.
Could what you observed be due to back diffusion? There is some back diffusion in laminar flow. I did some back of the envelope calcs today. The
diffusion equation for the concentration in 1D
dc/dt = D d^2c/dx^2
means a spike (delta function) of contaminant injected at t=0 x=0 will spread so that at later times the concentration is
1/sqrt(D t) e^-(x^2/Dt)
however the fluid is flowing at speed v, while the measuring point is a distance L upstream so
x = L + v t
and we must integrate over all times to get the contributions of all contaminant injections in the past (multiplying by the rate of concentration flux
as the origin)
c = dc/dt(0) int [1/sqrt(D t) e^-(L + v t)^2/Dt dt
c ~ dc/dt(0) sqrt(D/v L) e^-(4L v)/D
so if the distance of the measurement point from the downstream contamination L is comparable to the diffusion coefficient divided the fluid velocity,
significant back diffusion is possible.
Its increased greatly if there are wakes and the flow is turbulent.
Alternatively you could be right and the diffusion occurs through the boundary layer.
The boundary layer thickness (where velocity reaches 99% of its final value) by Blasius is
w ~ 5 sqrt(kin_viscosity pipe_diameter/flow velocity)
for gases
w ~ 5 sqrt(pipe_diameter * mean_free_path)
for a pipe of say 10^-1m diam and mean free path 0.1um, which is ~ right at atmospheric pressure we get
w ~ 1mm
But thats for 99%, you really need v to fall to 1% or below to aid diffusion, thats a ring of 10um diameter, which will result in ~ 2 * (10um/10cm)=
1/5000 less flux here due to surface area differential alone. Diffusion is I think further hindered because of the open boundary of the layer to the
main flow. I havent tried to calculate how much this affects result. Its an interesting problem - thanks Magpie
[Edited on 1-4-2009 by len1]
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quicksilver
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Quote: Originally posted by woelen  |
Let's go back to the topic of pyrobooks and related stuff. There is already too much detritus in this thread. |
For those who really want to get a copy of the PATR, I have been buying. The sources are obviously really professional rare book outlets. Amazon has
(had) vol.2 & 3 in very good cond. but I bought them up. Most quality rare book outlets (not Amazon) will have the set; which IS the way to do it.
Individual purchases can be @ 100 dollars or greater. That's too high!
Has anyone compared Legard's edition 2 to his 3rd edition? I think he got the message that quoting patents needs to be solid as wrong patent numbers
create suspicion....I think that fellow may even surf this board.
Es 
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len1
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If you read the above carefully you will see that it shows and explains WHY that Ledgard book you are mentioning is detritus, and why discussing it
seems pointless.
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Swede
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I have the third edition... I certainly have not read it cover to cover, nor do I have the expertise to look at a particular reaction and immediately
know it is bogus. But I still believe it is useful in the sense that it can get you going in a particular direction, and give you ideas you may not
have thought of before. As a "cookbook" (I hate that term) no.
I particularly dislike 99.9% reliance on "teflon coated 5mm shot". I'd love to find a source for teflon-coated mill media, but I suspect each
individual piece would cost about $5. I still haven't found it yet.
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quicksilver
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| Quote: Originally posted by Swede |
I particularly dislike 99.9% reliance on "teflon coated 5mm shot". I'd love to find a source for teflon-coated mill media, but I suspect each
individual piece would cost about $5. I still haven't found it yet. |
I think that's a very appropriate criticism. Prior I had mentioned that the author must have access to a particularly well equipped/funded lab. I have
yet to even see such a thing sold by larger firms (Fisher, Spectrum, etc).
On an interesting note of comparison between editions 2 and 3: in the synthesis for lead azide quoted in edition 2 the use of solution at 5C for lead
acetate solution was quoted - in edition 3 the solution was quoted as to 70C.
Temperature [of reactant solution] in terms of crystal growth & shape may be directly effected. Aside from dextrinated solution, the use of lower
temp was quoted by a very early patent to minimize needle shape product. The dissimilarities of the two editions is glaring in their temperature
guidelines.
[Edited on 7-5-2009 by quicksilver]
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grndpndr
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Quicksilver, "Du Pont was a Civil War draft dodger".End qoute. If you were drafted during the civil war you could hire a replacement(warm body with
enough teeth to tear open a paper cartridge) to serve in your stead.Perfectly legal and considered legitimate behavior for the wealthy.Politicians of
course very much needed to be war heroes or at least Capt/Colonels whatever rank they could afford.Wealthy men who had political aspirations could
essentially raise, equip and lead into battle thier personally funded battalion/brigade(depending on $$) under a generals orders of course and
normally raised under the flag/auspices of a state.One way to gain elected office/ high military rank or avoid service depending on your nature.
Worst book? anarchist's cookbook. Had an original copy wish I still had.Must be a cult classic by now.LOL
[Edited on 9-5-2009 by grndpndr]
[Edited on 9-5-2009 by grndpndr]
[Edited on 9-5-2009 by grndpndr]
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hissingnoise
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Having a copy of Ledgard's weird, misinformative tome makes me feel like an idiot, but I'll hold on to it, just in case.
If it's still worthless twenty years from now I'll nitrate the fucking thing.
I love his (simplified?) C4 preparation. . .
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quicksilver
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I mentioned the issue of Du Pont's Draft Dodging as of interest due to political posing of his firm (through several generations) as deeply committed
patriots. It seems a shame that it's always the young that pay the price for the old & rich to continue to thrive. The book was an attempt to
glorify his life but it was quite candid & pointed out some facts that made him appear to be a bastard.....just an opinion of course.
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grndpndr
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I would add the poor young whose folks couldnt afford college to avoid the draft(VN)or afford replacements for thier drafted kids during the civil
war.Id venture a guess that most of those in power/money dont have THIER children involved in our most recent bloodletting even the most vociferous
hawks(profiteering Duponts among them)
among them wont risk thier kids returning in AL coffins with the remains marked as not to be viewed.An unpopular view im sure but Im for the draft
again but this time NO deferments for anyone for any reason to include our representatives and president.Important enough to risk MY kids in the
national interest thats good enough for our reps and president to risk thiers.Perhaps the'd think twice about declaring war/nationbuilding?LOL Its
always the poor who bear the bulk of the pain of war,those with the least give the most.
[Edited on 11-5-2009 by grndpndr]
Davster edit to avoid a religion flamewar
[Edited on 12-5-09 by The_Davster]
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len1
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If one looks into history with ones own eyes rather than through the propaganda tinged interpretations of the facts writers often give them
voluntarily or involuntarily, one will see that the persistent theme is the exploitation of the masses by the few using whatever controls are at their
disposal: royalty, nobility, religeon, law, money, their better education, patriotism. That is all bullshit of course everyone is looking after
themselves and trying to exploit the other. The latest war on Iraq/Al Qaeda/Terrorism is no different, the disadvantaged believe the stories they are
told, are losing their lives, their homes, their jobs, while the rich are making money.
This is not a call to revolution/communism etc by the way. History has shown that these change nothing - only rearrange the advantaged/disadvantaged,
the ratio remains the same. It seems feifdom is genetically imprinted in the human mind.
I should add that one would think with information being available now at the flick of a button, masses of people would not fall for the same old trap
- none of it. The mass media has evolved to dumb down people - the sound bites, the one line SMS text massages by which the youth lives, the
cynicism. I think its all non-accidental (see how lack of education was used to rule masses in the past - same now). History, is still being taught
in each country according to their own interpretation of events, 'for their own national good' a la 'the glorious dead' etc. If you need proof and
you read several languages just see the completely different interpretations of contentious issues, past and present, on different language versions
of wikipedia. Although knowing history is going out of fashion for the advantaged as well, as shown by recent events, if the ruler actually believes
what he is saying it helps him mislead people.
[Edited on 11-5-2009 by len1]
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The_Davster
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This thread is about to degenerate, so lets get back to books.
A post likely to start a religion argument has been removed.
Back on the book theme, Akhaven's "chemistry of explosives" is far too simplified for my tastes, makes the tetrazine/tetracine mistake, and is
overpriced for a thin paperback at over 120$CDN. It is not horrible, it just has too many deficiencies for my tastes. If I was thinking of buying
it, money would be better spent elsewhere.
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hissingnoise
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The_Davster, IIRC, Akhavan's little RSC paperback cost me 27Euro nearly 10 years ago. . .
I don't know the exact value of the Canadian dollar but 120$CDN seems wildy excessive.
Copae in hardback cost me 35Euro 13 years ago and though dated, it is still light-years ahead of Akhavan's "effort".
Graphics in the latter are quite crude and misleading; the text too, is somewhat misleading in places.
At the risk of sounding sexist, I don't think females have the interest in energetic materials to write on them with any real passion, though Jimmie
Oxley may be an exception.
[Edited on 12-5-2009 by hissingnoise]
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quicksilver
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"Detonators, Electrical Detonators & Initial Primers for High Explosives" Hall, Howell, Taylor, & Cope is a very interesting & damn hard
to find book dealing with primary explosives from the US Bureau of Mines circulars, investigative memorandum, etc. It is actually simply reprints of
the Dept of the Interior's material dating from approx 1913 through 1924. USBoM material is really difficult to find today and most of the material
dealing with energetic material was dated prior to WWI.
The book is simply a collection of relevant papers dealing with tests of primaries. That being said, they were also written during a time in science
history that the language of chemistry was being changed & this makes for some challenges. An example is that copper/cupric verbiage, which makes
a great difference in the product. At that point in history these things were being settled but still confusing.
A great deal of the USBoM material surrounded testing of sensitivities & naturally standardization was being developed. The lead block sizes were
not consistent; the lead itself not always pure. The use of a bent nail test were beginning to be faced with differing compositions of steel in use.
On & on the mass of testing was almost kitchen chemistry, for lack of standardization. Interestingly, Europe followed in some aspects after the
USA had made great efforts to maintain consistency. Most of the book is testing results & some synthesis. This was also a time in history of
energetic materials that the Hg Fulminate shelf-life was at issue in warmer climates & a great effort was on to find a substitute that would not
weather warmth as badly.
Another are of interest is the electrical sensitivity of primary explosives. Remember that static electricity was a known factor but measurement of
extremely high voltage & VERY low current was a very challenging matter. Frankly the only method of dealing with a known static charge was
reproduction (Van De Graff generator type), measurement of current below milliamps was not yet available (TTBoMK). The terminology of "high tension" -
"Low Tension" meaning current/voltage proportions takes some getting used to. The development of resistive bridge wire was in it's infancy as
materials which produced resistance yet conducted were available but the common VOM/DIM meter was not available of course. The influence on various
primaries was very tough to deal with - without today's measurement devices.
If you know some of the history of energetic materials development, this is a very valuable book. To some it may be quite interesting. I would give
little credence to any reference to toxicity however....;-)
The material can actually be found on-line through archive of the Dept of the Interior via the Library of Congress if you want to wade through a ton
of other USBoM stuff.....You may be able to save some time by starting with Bulletin #59 & working forward. I have a collection of USBoM material
& all the source matter of this book: it took a damn long time to sift through.
Some of you may love this material....others may find it's crudity too much to have value.
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-=HeX=-
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I want to get the book on electric detonators...
And the prep manual of HE aint THAT bad so long as your 'BS distillery skills' are good. I know mine are...
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Sauron
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"Angels and Demons"
for wholesale anachronism and buthery of history
Ha;i;eo died 200 years before the Illuminati were founded (1776, Bavaria)
They disbanded 10 years later after being outlawed by the ruler of Bavaria.
Thus Galileo was not a member.
The Catholic Church did not massacre Illuminati. That is a lie.
The founder was not a scientist, he was a Jesuit-eduvated professor of canon law. He was excommunicated, and before his death many years later he
recanted and made his peace with Rome, jos excommunication was lifted.
The Illuminati were a failed decade long attempt at a masonic type secret societym and were not particularly devoted to science at all.
There is a huge amount of hogwash on and off the Net about this, and unfortunately Dan Brown's wife is not particular about source material.
File under RUBBISH alongside DA VINCI CODE.
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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hissingnoise
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I tjought this was an Energetiv Materiald thresd. . .
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Sauron
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Read the thread and you will be forced to come to the unalterable conclusion that this is anything but an Energetics thread and really ought to be in
Miscellany or Whimsy.
Anyway the book and film did have an antimatter bomb subplot, is that Energetic enough for you?
As regards the highly Energetic matter uf the US Civil War draft, the price to legally buy out was I believe $200 - nothing much for the rich, an
unthinkable sum for the poor mostly immigrabt factory workers who were the intended cannon fodder for Mr Lincoln's War of Norther Agression as we
southerners still call it.
See Martin Scorsese's GANGS OF NEW TORK for a treatment of the NYC draft riots and suppression by federal troops and naval bombardnwbr of Manhattan.
[Edited on 17-5-2009 by Sauron]
Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
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hissingnoise
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Sorry Sauron, I was taking the piss---the devil makes wo. . .
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franklyn
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Stupid Book
The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook
http://thedisease.net/functions.php?&arcanum=nbc/chemica...
It appears who may charitably be called the author , listed items out of Bretherick's.
See - 2.4 , Home made Betaluminum Poison - Could he be thinking of Botulinum ?
" 1.5 to 2 spatulas of fresh horse dropping ( cow dropping can be used if horse
is not available ) " , Sure , or you can use a spatula of pages from this book.
See - 8.3 Touching poisons , no doubt a favorite among nitrile gloved tag happy
assasins. I'll just bet they'll forget not to cover their sneeze. Achoo - Arrrgh
See - 5.4 ( Nerve Gas ) " It can be obtained by heating CCl4 with any metal "
Oh yeah , now there's a flash in the pan from Bevis and Butthead , and another
See - 5.5 Nitrous oxide " In a closed room, your victims will laugh to death "
I'm dying already 
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hissingnoise
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Now Infidel, will you convert to Islam??!!??
On a serious note, what the fuck is wrong with these sickos; they seem to be fixated on killing people they're never likely to know?
And for no real reason!
Stupid fucking sick organised superstition drives them---it seems!
[Edited on 6-12-2009 by hissingnoise]
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User
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There is also a book called something like the \"mujahideen explosive handbook\"
It just one big load load of crap promoting the use of AP haha.
And they do everything with coffee like kclo3/coffee... REally!
Quite funny stuff, I hope no one is actually taking it serious.
What a fine day for chemistry this is.
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hissingnoise
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Yeah. . .It probably is just a joke!
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User
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I hope so, my last post sounds like I am not taking it serious in any way.
Actually I do.
Especially the potential lethal consequences of this sort of crap.
How many people would have killed themselves thanks to the anarchist cookbook?
How many wack jobs are there not capable of determining how dangerous it is what they are doing?
And them I am not even thinking about the fucked up minds that use this stuff to kill.
They internet definitely has it\'s downsides, this sort of crap will always remain to drift around no matter how often it is deleted.
Sad really.
What a fine day for chemistry this is.
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hissingnoise
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Amen!
[edit]
Everything Dawkins says about religion has the ring of truth. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjF4w_E86gw
Harry Kroto thinks so, too!
[Edited on 6-12-2009 by hissingnoise]
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