| Pages:
1
2
3 |
dettoo456
Hazard to Others
Posts: 242
Registered: 12-9-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yes, recryst from slightly basic NH4OH or Urea sol, air dry, and add Diphenylamine, centralite, curcumin, or guaiacol. ETN PBXs will store even
better.
|
|
|
ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 930
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by pjig  | | Quick question on stabilization of the final product. As literature claims, ETN stores poorly. Even if the materials are washed and stabilized with
nitrogen scavenger, how long can this material safely bee stored? I know it’s big brother PETN store's indefinitely once re-crystallized and
purified. I guess if stored properly cool location could years be possible for ETN? |
ETN actually stores remarkably well. I would suggest two or three recrystalizations and add some urea to your dunk bucket. My suggestion is to use
different solvents each time. ETN is soluble in acetone, methanol, and isopropyl alcohol. My suggestion is to recrystalize in acetone first, and then
crystalize in methanol or isopropyl alcohol next. The reason for that is acetone gives a 'crunchy' texture to the ETN crystals while methanol and
isopropyl give a much finer powder texture, which is safer to handle and use.
I will need to give a third recrystalization to my ETN down the line because I forgot to add urea to the dunk water! But even without that, two
recrystalizations, along with the aggressive washing I did should have eliminated just about any acid residue. I still always want to be sure.
|
|
|
pjig
Hazard to Others
Posts: 169
Registered: 25-5-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: always learning
|
|
Excellent ideas. I like it, never heard of this method, but makes sense how you explained it. What amount of urea approximately are you using in your
crash water ? What’s your vessel size for this (I assume ice crash bath in a glass bowl or large beaker.) Some have claimed better success with a
wide surface area to crash…. Maybe a large cooking glass Pyrex? I’m sure it al depends on the starting materials volumes of course 
|
|
|
ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 930
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by pjig | | Excellent ideas. I like it, never heard of this method, but makes sense how you explained it. What amount of urea approximately are you using in your
crash water ? What’s your vessel size for this (I assume ice crash bath in a glass bowl or large beaker.) Some have claimed better success with a
wide surface area to crash…. Maybe a large cooking glass Pyrex? I’m sure it al depends on the starting materials volumes of course |
you can use 0.3% by weight of urea in the water you are crashing it into. But I did see in Dugan Boomfax's video (it is on youtube) that he used a 5%
urea solution for the crash.
For crashing I use a 2 gallon plastic (HDPE) mop bucket. It has a nice spout at the end to allow for easy pouring. I stir the water to make some nice
whirlpool action before dumping the stuff in and stir the stuff before starting to filter. With acetone it will chunk up, but with methanol (and I
assume isopropyl) it will be much more powdery.
|
|
|
pjig
Hazard to Others
Posts: 169
Registered: 25-5-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: always learning
|
|
Nice and simple…
|
|
|
Nowortimore
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 20-4-2024
Member Is Offline
|
|
Regarding stabilizing ETN. Has anyone tried crashing out the initial mixed acid into a solution ox NOX scavenger (Urea for example)? Wouldn't it
create many side products?
|
|
|
fx-991ex
Hazard to Self
Posts: 99
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Nowortimore | | Regarding stabilizing ETN. Has anyone tried crashing out the initial mixed acid into a solution ox NOX scavenger (Urea for example)? Wouldn't it
create many side products? |
Urea nitrate?
|
|
|
Sir_Gawain
Hazard to Others
Posts: 420
Registered: 12-10-2022
Location: Due South of Due West
Member Is Offline
Mood: Like a pendulum
|
|
No, just urea. It absorbs nitrogen oxides and residual acid.
“Alchemy is trying to turn things yellow; chemistry is trying to avoid things turning yellow.” -Tom deP.
|
|
|
fx-991ex
Hazard to Self
Posts: 99
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline
|
|
I know, what i mean is urea will react with residual nitric acid to form low solubility urea nitrate side product.
|
|
|
Nowortimore
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 20-4-2024
Member Is Offline
|
|
It wouldn't be a huge issue, urea nitrate is s lower power explosive than ETN. Not really sensitive. At the same time it could be removed by regular
recrystallization from Acetone. Urea nitrate is sparingly soluble in Acetone.
|
|
|
DennyDevHE77
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 15-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Don't you think it would be easier to flush the ETH with water? Because it is cheaper and ETN is not soluble in it, unlike urea nitrate?
|
|
|
dettoo456
Hazard to Others
Posts: 242
Registered: 12-9-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
Crashing the nitration mixture into a Urea sol is pointless and wasteful, as the mixed acids could possibly be recovered for later nitrations.
The first recrystallization however, in which Acetone, crude ETN, and bicarbonate are mixed, could be poured into a urea solution with no issues.
After that, any subsequent recrystallizations should involve the pure ETN without urea or cyanamide, or anything other than an organic NOx scavenger
like DPA or Centralite. Too large of a proportion of urea or urea nitrate will prompt hygroscopicity during storage in the ETN.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
