| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
..
8 |
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  | | Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | Hmmm......if the perceivable universe appears to be a cosmic crime scene,
then all humanity should be evidence technicians, crime scene investigators
dedicated to the task of getting the goods on the perpetrator who is responsible
so that perpetrator can be held accountable and brought to justice ....riiiight  |
The Bishop of Rome is claimed to be (by some)
Gods representative on earth — as such can he be
sued for Acts of God?. |
Sued ? How about criminally prosecuting the almighty for violating the laws of physics ? ......wait a minute.....
On second thought that probably won't work either, because of sovreign immunity ......it has got to be a rigged game I tell you. Yeah, the fix is in
for sure.
[Edited on 30-11-2010 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Sedit | ...... As well I have little faith in that same dog looking up at the sun and seeing anything other then a bright light and warmth where as the human
mind seems to need more information before its satified with an answer........
|
Some may say this is also a question of native intelligence & therefore possibly the ability to reason.
Is Self Awareness a factor in separating humans from beasts? Some would argue that many non-primates (dogs for instance) indeed do have self
awareness.
Is it possible that if native intelligence were greater or the capacity to reason greater - that a non-primate (or primate for that matter) could have
a belief in a "Great Dog". Self awareness is certainly not limited to humans. Is it possible that in some cases the dog's owner is, in a fractional
manner, the "dog's deity"?
I know there's a lot of openings for jokes here but I'm semi-serious.
[Edited on 30-11-2010 by quicksilver]
|
|
|
starman
Hazard to Others
Posts: 318
Registered: 5-7-2008
Location: Western Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You know it dawns on me if you slightly altered the question to' Can fundamentalism and science peacefully coexist' the answer is very simply
'no'.They are antithetical.One is moribund,mired in the misunderstandings of the past and utterly inflexible.The other looks forward,at least attempts
an improved comprehension and dosen't usually find it necessary to light things on fire or blow things up to respond to challenges to their belief
system.
Chemistry- The journey from the end of physics to the beginning of life.(starman)
|
|
|
DDTea
National Hazard
Posts: 940
Registered: 25-2-2003
Location: Freedomland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Degenerate
|
|
As intransigent as people say "religion" (a very broad statement) is, I can think of a lot of examples of religions adapting--albeit with much
internal struggle.
The Roman Catholic Church today is not advocating the Ptolemaic model, for example. Galileo was recently pardoned by the Church. The Church has
apologized for the Inquisition as well. They very, very rarely perform exorcisms these days and they aggressively investigate claims of miracles. If
you want to see an inquisition, try to convince the Church that a miracle has occurred to you!
That's just an example from one religion. Most of the well-established religions have a community of scholars that are always asking questions about
how modern problems can be solved/addressed by their respective beliefs. In that sense, being a religious scholar is very much like being a lawyer or
a judge.
An example by analogy: the US Constitution. In theory, it is "intransigent" and we in the US do not question it too much. We debate its
interpretation, but everyone accepts that it is is the supreme law of the land. Often though, those debates about its interpretation are in the
context of new problems that the Constitution probably didn't foresee. I would say that most mainstream religions today are like that.
[Edited on 12-1-10 by DDTea]
"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in
which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Quote: Originally posted by Sedit | ...... As well I have little faith in that same dog looking up at the sun and seeing anything other then a bright light and warmth where as the human
mind seems to need more information before its satified with an answer........
|
Some may say this is also a question of native intelligence & therefore possibly the ability to reason.
Is Self Awareness a factor in separating humans from beasts? Some would argue that many non-primates (dogs for instance) indeed do have self
awareness.
Is it possible that if native intelligence were greater or the capacity to reason greater - that a non-primate (or primate for that matter) could have
a belief in a "Great Dog". Self awareness is certainly not limited to humans. Is it possible that in some cases the dog's owner is, in a fractional
manner, the "dog's deity"?
I know there's a lot of openings for jokes here but I'm semi-serious.
[Edited on 30-11-2010 by quicksilver] |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnNlU433i4Q Bless The Beasts and The Children
http://www.americancatholic.org/features/francis/blessing.as... Blessing of pets by Franciscans
A dying man not long ago told my wife that when he arrived at heaven, he was going to ask if there were any dogs there, and if they said no, then he
would say send him to where the dogs go.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
In a dream, I died and went to hell - as expected, there was a great fire but I couldn't get close enough to warm myself because of all the clergy
hogging the entire friggin' hearth!
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Every holiday season the cynical grinches turn out in force ......
and every year all their party pooping bs falls flat just like the year before
It's like a kind of yearly spiritual and philosophical battle of cowboys and indians.
Back to the reservation grinches ! Roar ....go ahead .....make my day
Pistol and bullwhip in hand ....all the lions and tigers go sit on their stools.
And all the wide eyed children smile at the suddenly well behaved pussycats 
[Edited on 1-12-2010 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Yeah, can't beat bread and circuses . . .
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine |
Sued ? How about criminally prosecuting the almighty for violating the laws of physics ? ......wait a minute.....
On second thought that probably won't work either, because of sovreign immunity ......it has got to be a rigged game I tell you. Yeah, the fix is in
for sure.
|
God would have a tough time finding a lawyer if sued.
St. Peter finding the fence between heaven and hell in
disrepair calls out the the Prince of Darkness requesting
his help in funding the needed repairs. The P of D's reply
is not fit for print. To which St. P replies. I'll sue.
The P of D replies — Where are you going to find a lawyer?
djh
----
Physicist Albert Einstein God does not play dice with the universe.
(Der lieber Gott nicht werfelt).
Physicist Niels Bohr reply Stop telling God what to do with his
dice.
Physicist Stephen Hawking Not only does God play dice,
but... he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine |
A dying man not long ago told my wife that when he arrived at heaven, he was going to ask if there were any dogs there, and if they said no, then he
would say send him to where the dogs go. |
That's something I dearly hope I remember when the time comes.
(+ 1)
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | | Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In | | Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | Hmmm......if the perceivable universe appears to be a cosmic crime scene,
then all humanity should be evidence technicians, crime scene investigators
dedicated to the task of getting the goods on the perpetrator who is responsible
so that perpetrator can be held accountable and brought to justice ....riiiight |
The Bishop of Rome is claimed to be (by some)
Gods representative on earth — as such can he be
sued for Acts of God?. |
Sued ? How about criminally prosecuting the almighty for violating the laws of physics ? ......wait a minute.....
On second thought that probably won't work either, because of sovreign immunity ......it has got to be a rigged game I tell you. Yeah, the fix is in
for sure. |
A suit over the Heisenberg uncertainty principle would top
my list. It seems to me total unnecessary and that annoying.
|
|
|
froot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 23-10-2003
Location: South Africa
Member Is Offline
Mood: refluxed
|
|
Can science and religion coexist peacefully?
I believe they can. Weather it's humanly possible, probably not. There is always only one true answer to any question and neither the scientists nor
religion has all the answers to all the questions and both have answered certain questions incorrectly and lived by those answers. I also believe both
sides have some stuff right but none of them has earned the arrogance to look down at the other. As long as there are hard heads on either side of the
fence you can forget it.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
|
|
madscientist
National Hazard
Posts: 962
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: American Midwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
The question is best posed as being between faith and evidence-based reasoning. Since these philosophies contradict at a fundamental level, I
don't think they can co-exist without one undermining the other.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: | | The question is best posed as being between faith and evidence-based reasoning. |
Or pared down - between the irrational and the rational?
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Believe no history books. They are only speculation, since you weren't there to see it as an eyewitness. To just believe it what any others say, and
count it for knowledge without personally verifying it yourself ......well that would not be evidence based.....that would be faith. There clearly
is a bias expressed in all of this "intellectualizing" that is a fundamental intellectual dishonesty about even
what is "faith". What it really comes down to, the "secular humanism" is an intellectual snobbery that counts for superior whatever belief is
preferred by the possessor, while any others who fail to concur are not just different but are "inferior". What is "natural" or "supernatural"
depends on what is in nature on your planet ....
and what of history you count for history in comfort or dismiss with ridicule .....
while having no direct personal knowledge of anything before or beyond your
own singular mortal lifetime .....yet you confidently speak of what you count for knowledge of things eternal in the continuum before your time in the
world and beyond that time's end ......with pretended knowing what you cannot know.
People of faith recognize that perplexity for the test of arrogance that it is, and they flee from it in humility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZJJSuSNs1c&fmt=18 Holly Holy
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by madscientist | | The question is best posed as being between faith and evidence-based reasoning. Since these philosophies contradict at a fundamental level, I
don't think they can co-exist without one undermining the other. |
Would you not allow Agnosticism as a interpretation of flexibility (and therefore placing that person in a position of choice) on a "faith based" view
point?
Certainly there's always that "third choice" of "I don't have all the facts yet"...?
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by quicksilver]
|
|
|
madscientist
National Hazard
Posts: 962
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: American Midwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
There is no faith in agnosticism. To my knowledge, most of them are waiting for evidence.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDR5oRVarq8&fmt=18 Stones
A troubled world would be a poorer place without its saints and angels.
Science and mathematics are useful and interesting tools. But no toolbox
should blind us to what things do still inspire awe and singing of praises.
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
singing of praises...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Amen
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
| Quote: | | Of all the mediocre scientists I have ever met or read about none to very few believed in God. Of all the truly great scientists who ever lived, I
have not seen one who did not believe in God. |
I just can't believe this without good evidence and since this is purely anecdotal, I don't believe you.
I think the original question is obscure, ambiguous, vague, overplayed and boring. I am only here to read the replies. I am surprised at all of the
replies supporting religion as a legitimate mode of thought. I don't mind other people being religious, but I will never be. Live and let live I say
(unfortunately, those that are religious often do not live by this phrase).
Perhaps those that are religious are more inclined to reply to such a question in support of religious thoughts and ideals. Maybe those, like me, who
aren't religious and who, therefore find the very question as I described above just don't want to reply.
Yawn, I say. I have never understood how people can believe in things like the Bible and gods, but that's okay with me. Just because I don't
understand it doesn't mean I hate it (this seems to usually occur with religion and similar things).
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
The WiZard is In
International Hazard
Posts: 1617
Registered: 3-4-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by MagicJigPipe | | Quote: | | Of all the mediocre scientists I have ever met or read about none to very few believed in God. Of all the truly great scientists who ever lived, I
have not seen one who did not believe in God. |
I just can't believe this without good evidence and since this is purely anecdotal, I don't believe you. |
In a 1950 something issue of Scientific American there was
an article 'bout Nobel Prize winners and their beliefs in a God.
Perhaps someone could ferret it out.
Pop'd up in Google The Scientific GOD Journal
www.scigod.com. This is not a recommendation by me
I just note it in pasing.
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
http://nobelist.tripod.com/ 50 NOBEL LAUREATES
AND OTHER GREAT SCIENTISTS
WHO BELIEVE IN GOD free e-book
|
|
|
madscientist
National Hazard
Posts: 962
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: American Midwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
There may be some great religious scientists. But far more are not. 
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Yeah there will probably always be a few self-aggrandizing cynics
having minds as deep as a birdbath,..... real life of the party types.
Here's a Christmas Card for you ....
it needs powerpoint or the viewer for opening
Merry Christmas
http://sciencemadness.org/scipics/So_this_is_Christmas.pps
[Edited on 4-12-2010 by Rosco Bodine]
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
..
8 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
