| Pages:
1
2
3 |
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes I Know it would be a Safety problem, but I am not saying to have it be at all concentrated, if you took 1drop of NH3 and put it on
chloroform/chlorine it should over time convert the chloroform to carbon tetrachloride, so if somone had somthing like 100mls of chloroform just put
it in a cool place, like the fridge. Over time it would convert into HCl and CCl4 maybe.
perhaps a small amount of inorganic particles may not to to bad, it would make the NCl3 less stable and there for, it might react faster or somthing
but i dont know, it may also just stop any formation of NCl3 and nothing would happen.
Also would this reaction happen NH4Cl + 3Cl2 = NCl3 + 4HCl?
if it did, I could simply add NH4Cl to a chloroform/chlorine mixture.
I am pretty sure that reaction would happen
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Nitrogen trichloride is indeed a chlorinating agent but what proof do you have that it efficently affords the conversion of chloroform to carbon
tetrachloride? How is it superior to other safer alternatives such as possibly calcium hypochlorite or even sodium hypochlorite, both of which are
known to give this conversion but neither of which have been tested noteably...
|
|
|
kclo4
National Hazard
Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't know!!
It was just a suggestion, and if only a small amount is needed I don't think it is dangerous, also if NH4Cl can be used to make the NCl3, its hardly
a danger at all IMO
Just add NH4Cl to chloroform/chlorine mix and let sit.
I personally think it would work faster then NaOCl or the like for that it is less stable.
|
|
|
JohnWW
International Hazard
Posts: 2849
Registered: 27-7-2004
Location: New Zealand
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Nitrogen trichloride, produced by the reaction of excess Cl2 with NH3 or ammonium salts (lesser amounts result in NH2Cl and NHCl2), is DANGEROUSLY
EXPLOSIVE! The French chemist Dulong who discovered it in the 19th century blew himself up with it, and was seriously injured.
|
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Yes, that point has already been made. Remember, though, that early research on nitrogen trichloride was done in chlorinated solvents because it was
found to be stable in these. I’m not sure if chloroform is chlorinated enough to safely dissolve NCl<sub>3</sub>. It may well be, but I
still wouldn't take any chances.
|
|
|
leu
Hazard to Others
Posts: 368
Registered: 13-10-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It's possible to synthesize carbon tetrachloride from acetone and sodium hypochlorite, Robineau and Rollin published this version of the haloform
reaction and it was abstracted in Ber 27 Bd 4 396-7 (1894) 
Attachment: robineau.zip (67kB)
This file has been downloaded 718 times
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Thanks, but all I see are two lines at the bottom of the page, it's a citation concerning carbon tetrahalides, says nothing about acetone and
hypohalites. Nothing about mechanism. No details whatsoever, just title, authors, and journal details.
Was this Ber. entry cited in CA? It's intriguing, but only a teaser.
|
|
|
leu
Hazard to Others
Posts: 368
Registered: 13-10-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Chemical Abstracts didn't begin publication until 1907, replacing Review of American Chemical Research which ran from 1897 to 1906
 If you could be bothered to look at the second page of the file you will find
the rest of the abstract, the original article's citation given is Monit scient 4. ser 8, 341-2
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Ah. Sorry, I did not see any more pages, but that's a DejaVu file and does not scroll. Pardon me.
@leu, have you reduced this to practice yet?
Obviously very handy, if it works. The application to CHCl3 is of course very well known. I have personally only done that for iodoform.
[Edited on 2-3-2007 by Sauron]
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
For @gc
Here's the Robineay abstract in pdf since you can't use DjVu at present.
[Edited on 4-3-2007 by Sauron]
Attachment: Robineau396.pdf (140kB)
This file has been downloaded 822 times
|
|
|
garage chemist
chemical wizard
Posts: 1803
Registered: 16-8-2004
Location: Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The procedure described in there is not of much use.
Chloroform is partially converted to CCl4 by the action of NaOCl solution at 40-50°C.
It is stated that some CCl4 is obtained when acetone is added to an excess of NaOCl solution at 40-50°C.
CCl4 is obtained in low yield. Its presence in large amounts of chloroform can be tested for by heating 1ml of the chloroform 7-8h with 20ml 25% NaOH
solution in a closed tube at 100°C. CCl4 is not attacked by this procedure and remains as an oil.
Another method to separate it is to stir 1ml of the chloroform with 400ml of a saturated solution of CCl4 in water. Chloroform, being much more
soluble in water than CCl4, dissolves and CCl4 again remains as an oil.
The article suggests that Chloroform does react with the NaOCl to produce CCl4, and I think that that the in-situ generation of chloroform from
acetone only serves to finely divide it for better reaction. Thus, I would think that stirring premade chloroform with NaOCl soln at 40-50°C will
also make some CCl4. This is of course only useful if chloroform is available.
[Edited on 4-3-2007 by garage chemist]
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Thanks. It does not appear that this method is likely to dislodge the chlorination of CS2 and reduction of resulting trichloromethyl sulfenyl chloride
with iron filins, anytime soon as the best method of making CCl4.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
