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Rosco Bodine
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There is more to be said for the value of steel than ideology .
Good prevails when the best of both are on the same side .
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DerAlte
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@ quicksilver – I agree with your point, that to utter what is not a blasphemy to oneself with deliberate intent at a devout believer amounts to
issuing an insult. I am against that and similar racial, chauvinistic and sexist behavior.
I am atheist (actually agnostic, but you’d hardly notice the difference. Like all metaphysics, all theology is neither provable nor disprovable,
just mere speculation. I just find such speculation very highly improbable (– 10 sigma, say) but have no way of proving it actually untrue).
Actually all teaching is a form of brain-washing. Where the basis is demonstrable fact, the effects may be positive. But most religious teaching has
no demonstrable basis and is pure brainwashing to the destruction of the intellect. Didn’t the Jesuits say, give me a child at age 5 and I can make
him mine for life? “I was born a Christian, or a Muslim etc.” is totally meaningless – I was born a human being, period. Someone tried to
brainwash me into being a Christian, etc..
Veering slightly ON topic, one must remember that the agents of law enforcement and “Homeland Security” etc., in the main, are just trying to do a
dangerous and very necessary job. You cannot expect Deputy Joe to have a deep grounding in the sciences or even law. You can’t expect him to have an
IQ of 130 and be willing to quietly discuss philosophy with you. He has to do his job as best and safely as he can. You can’t expect him to have
the morals of a saint either. The same goes for politicians.
You have to rely on the law. Stupid laws are made by stupid people. Make sure you don’t elect them!
Regards,
DerAlte
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quicksilver
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DerAlte
@ quicksilver – I agree with your point, that to utter what is not a blasphemy to oneself with deliberate intent at a devout believer amounts to
issuing an insult. I am against that and similar racial, chauvinistic and sexist behavior.
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This is an important point I believe. Note the quote of the Koran illustrated in my previous post......The non-Islamic individual can do everything in
their power to produce a positive affect but that person is still NON-ISLAMIC and therefore should be scorned (or MUCH worse!)....In this; from the
Koran itself dictates that those who are not Islamic will NEVER be treated humanly if they are judged by those who are literalistic in their
interpretation of the Book.
I have read the Koran several times and each time I read it - it seems most damning in it's condemnation of those unlike the Believer. I highly
recommend to anyone interested in today's world politics to READ the KORAN! The points of view reflected in it's teachings are very significant to
understanding why we find ourselves in the midst of terror.
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DerAlte
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Interesting to hear that you have read the Koran not only once but several times. I struggled to just get through it once, and a bigger pile of
irrelevant ranting and miscopying of Jewish and early Christian writings is hard to imagine. But then again, Mohammed admitted he was illiterate, so
he can’t have written it – he must have dictated it from what was obviously faulty and erratic memory. And we can be sure it was altered and
emended by later Islamic scholars.
They didn’t do a very good job. It is repetitious and boring, non-sequiter, inaccurate, preaches violence and is even vulgar. Yet the devout claim
it is the perfection of Arabic literature, a thing of beauty. But untranslatable. To do so is mistaken, because Allah spoke in Arabic.
Unlike you, the average Islamic devout has never read it. He just listens to imams chanting sections and spouting religious and racial hatred. How any
intelligent being can be so brainwashed eludes me.
I have also read the Bible about half a dozen times. And parts of the Vulgate in Latin, even Genesis in the ancient Greek (En arche ho theos…). (I
can still read Latin but the Greek I once had has virtually evaporated). The English King James version is a masterpiece of literature for a work done
by committee. The Latin version is prosaic and so is the Greek. The English translators added Hebrew versions and managed to produce literature yet
keep faithfully to the originals..
A lot of the OT is merely Jewish legendry history, sometimes interesting; some sections are unreadable! So is the dogma of the Law books... But
there are some pearls in the bible, such as Ecclesiastes, a work of philosophy that still rings true today. Or Revelation in NT, a very late piece of
rather gripping imagery and apocalyptic thinking. There’s poetry in the Song of Solomon. In contrast, the Koran reads as the ravings of a
schizophrenic whose alter ego is dictating. The prophet appears to have been seriously disturbed mentally.
It should indeed be required reading by all intelligent people in the west and non-muslim east, and not just a few selected suras or verses. Parts of
the Haditha, too. A devout muslim believes them - could he then possibly be 'moderate'?
...However, if this is germane to the original thread, it is so tenuous that the very last strand is about to break…
Regards,
DerAlte
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Rosco Bodine
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@DerAlte ...my dittos to everything you just said .
Before this thread goes the locked way of so many others , I would like to say that I very seriously doubt the premise that this forum has been
missing out on any valuable technical content which would have otherwise been posted here by potential contributors who are "turned off" when they see
any observations of fact they find offensive to their cultural or religious sensibilities .
I see and saw all the anti-american sentiment stuff that gets sometimes posted by revisionist historians and propagandists .....and it never has once
interfered whatsoever with my own interest in technical dicussions
which are perfectly "culturally neutral" .....or not.
And since the "new rules" to keep everything PC have been put into effect .....there hasn't been some huge influx of new technical contributors who
were holding out for a more "sheltered environment" to make them feel more welcome to make a scientific contribution .
There really is a growing tension in the world over a
sort of counter-cultural minority class of savages .
And it is as difficult to ignore or put on the blinders concerning , as if it were the elephant in the room ,
or laboratory ...and as if we pretend it isn't there it will just go away .
Obviously no political or social sensitivity deficiency on
the part of the non-fanatic accounts for the deficiency
of rationale and reason which necessarily is the primary
affliction of the fanatic . By definition there is no placating fanatics which stops short of complete capitulation to them , which no reasoning
person will ever do .
[Edited on 11-7-2007 by Rosco Bodine]
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