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NEMO-Chemistry
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 29-5-2016
Location: UK
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Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  | | Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | I concur with the common opinion on this matter, don´t talk with the police ever!
That´s what lawyers are for.
Cops will just twist everything around in their favour what you say to them, trying to construct a charge out of it...
Also, keep your hobby a secret as much as possible, because others will for sure start jokingly mention your bomb/meth lab, "friend"(more like
acquintances), people who don´t grasp the concept of this hobby at all, and not knowing how much damage such a behaviour could cause.
And the cops don´t care about your legal status, all they know is they probably will receive a raise after they busted a lab.
No matter that it was just a harmless chemistry lab, and not a drug kitchen or bomb workshop... A lab is a lab, right? 
Cops aren´t your friendly helper, actually they´re quite the opposite of it, street pirates disguised as public servants...
But contacting a lawyer in advance, that would be a wise move, even if it may cost a little, it will come handy if there is ever any kind of trouble.
This way he knows about your projects already, very helpful to have someone already convinced and informed about the real nature of your hobby.
Especially someone with this profession, thats worth it totally to have one consulted, informed and in the worst case if it ever comes to this, ready
to defend you too. |
I agree with most of this advice. But over the 15 years I have done this hobby I have relaxed a bit on who I show my lab to. Most are just amazed at
my lab and equipment. Cook/terrorist jokes just are minimal, just someone looking for a cheap laugh. My brother asked "where do you get all these
wonderful toys?" (a la the Joker in Batman.) I am a 75 year old retired chemical engineer. My friends and associates are mostly of the same age.
They are well educated and sophisticated, not inclined to gossip or joke at my expense.
I have never talked to a lawyer, but I know who I would call.
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Thats a great example of profiling, from a cops view point....75 years and no record, been a pro and now retired likes to dabble.
Compared with 17+ known to local police for larking about and hanging around in crowds of youngsters.
No convictions but is known to have friends with a long list of them. Dosnt have a job and never has had one......
Which one you going to visit??
[obviously, if it was us, then Magpie! But pretend your a copper]
I will update my thread shortly, I did get another visit. I now know for sure all about the police experts :O, I would post now but waiting to hear
something back first.
I dont want to update until I am certain it isnt going to annoy my visitors.
I have changed my advice though, if your messing with Nitric etc, then you need to think about it, if your not and your closer to Magpies profile than
the kid, then keep your mouth shut.
If your the kid..........Get rid the chemistry stuff, or make sure you get your shit together.
At least in the UK, i can assure you that the police, DO NOT react the way you think they would, and they dont act the way you would like.
I am legit and licensed by virtue of a company with the correct SIC numbers, and the shit I have been getting from them, seriously starting to
consider folding the company and sticking to baking powder.
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The jersey rebel
Hazard to Self
Posts: 76
Registered: 27-5-2016
Location: Jersey Fresh
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Mood: dealing with excessive change
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Here’s my advice. Keep your lab on the DL. It was a pain in the ass when my high school realized I was an am-Chemist, I can’t imagine what pain
the cops would cause you. They aren’t there to give you advice, they’re there to make convictions. If you’re concerned about the regulations, go
to your state’s legislative site and have a good look at housing/zoning and chemical regulations. It’ll tell you most of what you need to know. If
you’re not satisfied with the results, do go to a lawyer.
I was lucky enough to be in a small suburb that you can throw a stone and it’ll land in a different town, in my case, cherry hill. the police knew
me quite well as I was locally famous as that science loving autistic kid with a peaceful demeanor that lets people know my occasional psychotic
temper tantrums were not intentional, I just couldn’t express myself until I was well into high school
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sodium_stearate
Hazard to Others
Posts: 255
Registered: 22-4-2011
Location: guard duty at the checkpoint
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Mood: No mask.
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Maintain a low profile.
"Opportunity is missed by most people
because it is dressed in overalls and it
looks like work" T.A. Edison
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froot
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 23-10-2003
Location: South Africa
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Mood: refluxed
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How big, noisy or smelly will your lab be?
Consider the type of person that would choose law enforcement as a career. Finding one that would be enlightened and supportive of your endeavour I
would consider to be like finding a cardinal in a brothel. Not saying they're all bad people but they will consider an oddity to the norm like a home
lab to be worth suspicious and untrusting attention. You may come out the other end of an investigation poorer but 'ok' and then again, you may not.
99% labs will require a listed reagent and that's how they'll burst your bubble because it's easier to enforce the law on standard issue citizens and
not anomalies like you/us. They don't like uphills.
If you want to keep this above the radar it may be worth renting a small space in an industrial zone. Update your compliance for the reagents you
require and whatever license for your lab. Hopefully the costs will be comparable to lawyers fees and whatnot if the other route is taken.
Can the institution where you qualified not give you access to some lab space? Bottle of whiskey included in there somewhere....
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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Learned Foot
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 4-4-2018
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Disclosure: I'm new to the board, and just getting back into amateur chemistry, but my day job is attorney.
NEVER SPEAK TO THE POLICE WITHOUT YOUR ATTORNEY PRESENT!
In Castlerock v. Gonzalez the Court made it clear that the police are not there to protect you. The following is oversimplified, but have
you ever noticed that a Miranda warning says "anything you say can be used against you"? However, Miranda does not say that your statements can be
used "for you." That is in part because there is a specific exception to the rule against hearsay for statements made against your own interest. In
other words there is a measure of reliability when you say something to the police that would incriminate, but most people will lie to get out of
trouble. Generally, under the rules of evidence, what a defendant says to the police cannot be used to prove innocence. For this reason say nothing
to the police or at least have your attorney present when talking to the police.
Nearly all of my clients facing criminal charges, do so because they spoke to the police.
So in answer to the question of this thread, should you talk to the police about your lab? No, unless there is some legal requirement to do so, and
if there is some reason to speak to the police let your attorney do the talking.
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j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6320
Registered: 4-10-2014
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Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
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Disclaimer noted.
These things do vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Where I live you are more likely to attract difficulty by keeping infomation from the police. Obvious non-disclosure will arouse suspicion and result
in a deeper and more forceful investigation in most feasible circumstances.
This thread is specifically related to the UK which is in a state of transition with respect to the regulations and practices pertaining to hobby
chemistry.
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Learned Foot
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 4-4-2018
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | Disclaimer noted.
These things do vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Where I live you are more likely to attract difficulty by keeping infomation from the police. Obvious non-disclosure will arouse suspicion and result
in a deeper and more forceful investigation in most feasible circumstances.
This thread is specifically related to the UK which is in a state of transition with respect to the regulations and practices pertaining to hobby
chemistry. |
I agree that the issue varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. However, my advice still stands, if you are required to disclose, have an attorney
or solicitor contact the police for you or at least consult one to protect your rights. In other words, in my view, criminals never get an attorney
BEFORE the police are involved.
However, I could not see a reference to DeltaTee's jurisdiction, so my apologies for assuming US jurisdiction is relevant. If UK is the default
jurisdiction, I am a US attorney, I will spend my time elsewhere.
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j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6320
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
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Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
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| Quote: Originally posted by Learned Foot |
However, I could not see a reference to DeltaTee's jurisdiction, so my apologies for assuming US jurisdiction is relevant. If UK is the default
jurisdiction, I am a US attorney, I will spend my time elsewhere.
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My error. I was mistaking this thread for another one related to the UK.
Do stick around. Your thoughts are appreciated. We do discuss legal matters quite regularly and having someone with some expertise can only be a good
thing.
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