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Zyklon-A
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But if it does contain some water (<2%) can I just use extra lithium? Or will the produced LiOH prevent the reaction somehow?
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Brain&Force
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2% shouldn't be enough to stop the reaction.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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woelen
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I think that using some extra lithium then will do the trick. First the lithium is used for removing the water and the resulting LiOH does not prevent
further reaction. If you have 2% water in your ethylene diamine, then try with not more than 2 ml of liquid and a pea-sized piece of lithium.
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Loptr
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Lithium in Ethylenediamine: A New Reducing System for Organic Compounds
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo01359a009
Anyone have access?
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Crowfjord
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Bam
Attachment: jo01359a009.pdf (491kB)
This file has been downloaded 549 times
Also, here is one concerning Birch reduction with lithium and non-liquid ammonia. It is Turkish, though, so make of it what you will. Seems legitimate
to me.
[Edited on 22-8-2014 by Crowfjord]
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Loptr
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Quote: Originally posted by Crowfjord  | Bam
Also, here is one concerning Birch reduction with lithium and non-liquid ammonia. It is Turkish, though, so make of it what you will. Seems legitimate
to me.
[Edited on 22-8-2014 by Crowfjord] |
Thank you! I thought this paper might be an interesting addition to what woelen had done already.
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Loptr
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According to the paper, sodium is used to purify (dry?) ethylenediamine, so it probably wouldn't substitute for lithium very effectively.
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Anhydrous ethylenediamine (Union Carbide Chemical Co. and Eastman) was purified by heating with sodium for a few days and then distilling; the
reaction of sodium with t,he amine is slow.
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woelen
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| Quote: Originally posted by Polverone | | The easiest solution may be to install virtualized Windows XP under VirtualBox, since you already know a program that does what you need in XP.
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I wanted a solution in which I do not need Windows at all, but I gave up 
I installed VirtualBox, installed Windows 8 in the virtual machine and installed virtualdub. This also was not an easy go. I needed to get suitable
codecs. Now I have an aweful way of making videos for my website:
- First convert from MTS format to AVI format, using ffmpeg on my Ubuntu 14.04 box. In the same go, I convert audio from AAC 48 kHz to MP3 192 kb/s
also at 48 kHz.
- I tranfer the files to my virtual machine and then I use virtualdub to scale the videos down, compress the videos to manageable size (from typically
100 MByte to appr. 5 MByte).
For Windows 8 there is no suitable MP3 encoding software, which integrates with virtualdub, hence the trick with ffmpeg under Linux, which uses Lame.
But I finally have a working solution. Now I can concentrate on the webpage itself and I hope to provide a webpage with pictures and videos very soon.
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woelen
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Finally, after a lot of struggles with new software for making videos and webpages, I have the webpage for the solvated electrons:
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/electride/in...
Now I have the software set up in such a way that in the future if I want to add other new pages, it should be a much easier process again.
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papaya
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wine+virtualdub?
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bismuthate
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do you think that aluminium (as an amalgam) could dissolve in liquid ammonia?
Also it would be very cool to try dissolving exotic metals like barium and europium in liquid NH3. I'll need to ask my mom for some dry ice.
EDIT: or get some ethylene diamine
[Edited on 24-8-2014 by bismuthate]
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Brain&Force
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I think you'll have success with lanthanides and liquid ammonia. Gadolinium and ytterbium are easy to come by (try Metallium), but I'm not sure
they'll dissolve in ethylenediamine.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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bismuthate
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Do you think that europium would dissolve in ethylenediamine?
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Brain&Force
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I would think not, but it definitely will dissolve in liquid ammonia.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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woelen
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The smaller the solvent molecule, the easier the electride is formed and the more mobile the electrons are. Liquid ammonia is best, ethylene diamine
works, but it works with less metals than ammonia. If you have access to anhydrous hydrazine, then it also is worth trying that (in small
quantities!). Hydrazine is liquid at room temperature, so it is easier to handle. Hydrazine, however, is a nasty toxic compound, much more so than
ethylene diamine.
A mix of ethylene diamine and n-propylamine seems to be one of the best things for electride formation at room temperature. Unfortunately, propylamine
is not easy to obtain, it seems to be a precursor for some drug and I know of no supplier who sells that to non-registered individuals. Ethylene
diamine, on the other hand, I can purchase without problems.
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BromicAcid
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If I recall correctly, hydrazine + alkali metals leads to explosion. Someone back me up on this please? Otherwise I will get a ref later.
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smaerd
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@woelen - Have you toyed with this experiment since then? Did you ever observe the bronze/reflective coloration with this solution?
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woelen
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I have tried other metals and I also tried lithium in ethylene diamine in a sealed test tube, so that oxygen is used up. In all these experiments I
came no further than the dark blue species. The color becomes so intense that it almost is black, but I never saw the bronze-like appearance.
With other metals than lithium (K, Na, Ca) I had no success at all. The metals do not react. Apparently, the (en) only can dissolve the metal, if a
sufficiently stable complex is formed and I think this only works for Li.
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aga
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Erm, solvated electrons ?
Blue in colour ?
Now i'm floundering like a beached whale.
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j_sum1
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nice video on periodic table of videos. don't have time to look it up but it is worth it.
[Edit]
Here you go aga. http://www.periodicvideos.com/videos/liquid_electrons.htm
Knock yourself out!
[Edited on 25-6-2015 by j_sum1]
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smaerd
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@woelen - thanks for the reply and information. I'm really interested in this experiment. Your idea of using an n-propylamine ethylenediamine mixture
for room temperature solvated electrons is a great one. I'd love to see that bronze color at room temperature. Maybe in the future I'll jump on board
with tinkering here.
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aga
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Wow !
Thanks for the link j_sum.
Even a quick glimpse inside woelen's lab makes me feel like a baboon peeking into a starship.
[Edited on 26-6-2015 by aga]
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j_sum1
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It doesn't matter how drunk you are, aga. You never lose the power of the simile.
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gatosgr
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What can you use this except reducing and what is the standard reduction potential for this reaction?
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