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Magpie
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Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:
1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Texium
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I second you on the carbon tetrachloride and sodium borohydride for sure.
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Loptr
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You sure are raising the bar, @Magpie. I would be interested as well, seconding the condition they could be legally obtained.
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prof_genius
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Dose anyone know where I can get Uranyl acetate and depleted uranium in Poland or The Netherlands, or any company that ships there.
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zenosx
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I would say that it is possible to circumvent these legal liabilities by having disclaimers to the sale and use of said substances.
In the same way that tobacco manufacturers now circumvent lung cancer lawsuits, having similar disclaimers for the distribution of specific (if not
all) chemicals that could cause potentially lethal harm to persons not physically able to properly handle them, could potentially make otherwise
unobtainable chemicals available to the amateur, which would be any person not working in a professional laboratory setting.
Quote: Originally posted by Burner  | | Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | | 2) his liability for any problems resulting from our use of these more reactive, hazardous, etc, reagents is sufficiently low.
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I suspect that this will be partuicularly problematical. We are a highly diverse group with varying levels of skill and laboratory training,
operating in facilities ranging from primitive to sophisticated, pursuing experiments that can be cookbook to bleeding edge. Let's face it - we are
risky in this regard, and there is little I feel that we can do to alter that perception when significant legal liability may be attached to these
decisions. |
A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
Albert Einstein
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prof_genius
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I agree, a disclaimer like "(company name) is not responsible for any damage to health and property caused by their reagents, use at own risk!" would
work.
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mr.crow
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| Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:
1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml |
Number 1 and 4 are pretty toxic and reactive which might be a problem.
I agree with some suggestions posted on another thread. Organic bases and lewis acids seems to be very hard to find
- Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (needs a serious bottle since HCl gas always leaks out)
- Triethylamine (or HCl form)
- Pyridine (or HCl form)
Thanks to Tom for supporting amateur scientists!
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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prof_genius
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Shipping them in cans works(Aldrich dose it), and you could also seal them in plastic coated bottles(may cost a lot).
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
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Here's my initial analysis of the chemicals suggested. These are all special order so I can't give specific costs unless I have a better idea of how
many can be sold and in what quantities. If you could give me a little better idea on numbers and amounts, I can check further into best suppliers.
thionyl chloride ___500 ml____Hazardous___ Hazmat Pack
sodium borohydride___500 ml___Hazardous____Hazmat Pack
carbon tetrachloride ____500ml____Hazmat Pack
phosphorus trichloride___250 ml___Can't be shipped by UPS or FedEx
Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous)___Hazmat Pack
Triethylamine____Hazmat Pack
Pyridine____100 ml, 500 ml___Hazardous___Hazmat Pack
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gdflp
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Here are my suggestions,
Anthracene 125g
Oxalyl Chloride 250ml
Bromobenzene 250ml
Calcium Phosphide 125g
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Magpie
lab constructor
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Thanks tomholm! I'm just in awe that you have offered to do this. Perhaps some here are shy about expressing their needs in public. For those, U2U
or email might be better.
I will add acetyl chloride, 250 ml, to my list.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
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Here's my initial analysis of the chemicals suggested. These are all special order so I can't give specific costs unless I have a better idea of how
many can be sold and in what quantities. If you could give me a little better idea on numbers and amounts, I can check further into best suppliers.
thionyl chloride ___500 ml____Hazardous___ Hazmat Pack
sodium borohydride___500 ml___Hazardous____Hazmat Pack
carbon tetrachloride ____500ml____Hazmat Pack
phosphorus trichloride___250 ml___Can't be shipped by UPS or FedEx
Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous)___Hazmat Pack
Triethylamine____Hazmat Pack
Pyridine____100 ml, 500 ml___Hazardous___Hazmat Pack
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mr.crow
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Can we get in touch with you to special order these chemicals?
Another one to add to the list is oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4 
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
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Special Order on Chemicals
| Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow | Can we get in touch with you to special order these chemicals?
Another one to add to the list is oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4
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I am putting together a list of chemicals with options on quantities and pricing for these special order chemicals. I had hoped to be finished today,
but it will take a little more time. Please check back on an update in 3-4 days and I will hopefully have more info on how to order.
Thx.
Tom
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Dr.Bob
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I would suggest shipping the TEA and pyridine as the HCl salts. Both are easy to free base from the salts and that would convert them to much less
expensive materials to ship, especially in smaller quantities, like 25g. Some of the others might be able to go under the small sample exemption if
you get to a small enough amount, like 25-30 ml/g. The savings in shipping would still make it cheaper even if people wanted several small bottles.
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
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Special Order Chemicals
OK, Folks. I'm ready to try special orders for some of the hard-to-get, discontinued chemicals. [It's taken a little longer than I thought to pull
it all together, so I apologize for that.] On the Elemental website, I've set up a category called "Special Order Chemicals" that lists 12 of the hard-to-get chemicals suggested within this thread. From here, you can place your orders for these
chemicals.
To try to better manage the shipping costs, I've created the following procedures for how the orders will be processed. Please keep in mind this is
our first attempt at this and I welcome any and all suggestions on how to make this work better. I'll also remind you that I will not be buying these
in bulk, so pricing may be a little higher than we'd all like on some of the chemicals. I'm hoping that this goes well and I can improve on that in
that future, depending on customer response.
Also see that I have defined a window to place your orders. I've set this first cut-off period to be near the end of August. Again, depending on how
well this works, we could continue to place special orders on a monthly or quarterly basis.
Here are the instructions on ordering these Special Order Chemicals.
Note: Special Order Chemicals are not stocked in inventory and are ordered on a pre-determined and announced schedule. To reduce shipping and
handling fees on these orders, the orders are held and processed at one time.
Discounts will not be applied against Special Order Chemicals. Other items ordered along with Special Order Chemicals will have the discounts applied
as usual.
Orders for these chemicals must be completed prior to the scheduled processing time. At the scheduled processing time, the chemicals will be ordered
from the supplier(s). After the chemicals arrive from the supplier(s), customer orders will be processed and shipped.
The next processing time for Special Order Chemicals is August 25, 2014.
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Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:
1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml |
I am not familiar with US laws, so is it actually illegal to buy sodium borohydride in the US? Or is it to expensive?
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
Posts: 193
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Location: United States
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| Quote: Originally posted by Haber | | Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | Here's my list of chemicals I would buy right now if I could legally do so, assuming the price is within reason:
1. thionyl chloride, 250 ml
2. sodium borohydride, 250 g
3. carbon tetrachloride, 250 ml
4. phosphorus trichloride, 250 ml |
I am not familiar with US laws, so is it actually illegal to buy sodium borohydride in the US? Or is it to expensive? |
Sodium borohydride is OK. It's one of the 12 in the Special Order category. Phosphorus trichloride cannot be shipped via UPS or FedEx, so is not
included. Here's a list of the 12 that are now available for Special Order:
Acetyl chloride 250 ml
Anhydrous aluminum trichloride (Aluminum Chloride Anhydrous 1 kg
Anthracene 100 g
Bromobenzene 250 ml
Calcium Phosphide 100g
carbon tetrachloride 500 ml
oleum, SO3 dissolved in H2SO4 20-30% Free 500 g
Oxalyl Chloride 250g
Pyridine 100 ml
sodium borohydride 250 ml
thionyl chloride 500 ml
Triethylamine 1 kg
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Magpie
lab constructor
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tomholm: I wish to thank you for making these reagents available for the home chemist! I never thought I would see the day when certain of these
would be available.
I think that many of us are probably still in shock and think that there must be a catch somewhere. We may think that by buying them our name will be
put on a list by some 3-letter agency. But, in reality, our names are probably already on those lists for buying acetone and HNO3.
Some of the prices are high. I realize that this is probably due to the small orders that you have to place and that you do not have the capability
to repackage to smaller containers. This is unfortunate as many of our members barely have enough money to buy essential glassware. I'm hoping that
those members that have the knowledge and skill to use these chemicals will also find a way save up some money and buy them.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Burner
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Tom,
How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not
know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding
its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your
knowledge.”
- Isaac Asimov
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
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Location: United States
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| Quote: Originally posted by Burner | Tom,
How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not
know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!
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I expect glass bottles, but some of these are new chemicals for me, as well. I noticed the Oxalyl requires "refrigeration".
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Loptr
International Hazard
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| Quote: Originally posted by tomholm | | Quote: Originally posted by Burner | Tom,
How will some of the items (e.g. Oxalyl Chloride & Thionyl Chloride) be packaged? I would hope that these would be glass ampules, but I do not
know what facilities you might have to do that type of packaging. Any help would be appreciated!
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I expect glass bottles, but some of these are new chemicals for me, as well. I noticed the Oxalyl requires "refrigeration". |
A few of these items I would most likely repackage using safety coated glass bottles, such as those available from Qorpak, if they didn't already come
in something similar. I am not interested in glass breakage, especially with things such as thionyl chloride. No thank you.
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tomholm
Owner of BME Lab and Science and Elemental Scientific
Posts: 193
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Location: United States
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| Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | tomholm: I wish to thank you for making these reagents available for the home chemist! I never thought I would see the day when certain of these
would be available.
I think that many of us are probably still in shock and think that there must be a catch somewhere. We may think that by buying them our name will be
put on a list by some 3-letter agency. But, in reality, our names are probably already on those lists for buying acetone and HNO3.
Some of the prices are high. I realize that this is probably due to the small orders that you have to place and that you do not have the capability
to repackage to smaller containers. This is unfortunate as many of our members barely have enough money to buy essential glassware. I'm hoping that
those members that have the knowledge and skill to use these chemicals will also find a way save up some money and buy them.
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I guess I can't tell you how this is going to work out. We'll find out. All I can say is that, from my end, everything is being done above board. I
expect members of this forum, as well as all of my customers, will handle these chemicals with care and use them for legitimate research purposes. If
not, this is one experiment that will end very quickly.
Yes, unfortunately these chemicals do not come cheap. They require a lot of extra care in handling and there are not a lot of manufacturers and
competition out there for many of these chemicals. That said, I did compare costs against other suppliers and feel that these are about the best I
can do at this time. Hopefully, everyone will find a way to make this work.
I should also add that it is pretty difficult to accurately estimate hazardous shipping costs if multiple chemicals are ordered. Because of the
combinations and the reactive possibilities between chemicals, shipping charges may need to be adjusted after reviewing a complete order. We would
then let you know of any such adjustments. We'll need some flexibility here, but I've tried to indicate hazardous shipping charges when considering
each chemical individually.
Thanks for all of your support.
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Dr.Bob
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Oxalyl chloride is best refrigerated. but does fine at room temp for a long time. I would not try to ship it cold. I would double bag it and ship
in a metal can, but you likely have the shipping guides. Some of the amounts that you list are pretty large, like 500 ml thionyl chloride. I do
chemistry for a living and have not used 500 ml of it in 10 years time. So it might be nice to have a smaller option, as that is an example of a
chemical that will be hard to dispose of if you have too much. Same for 1 kg of AlCl3, it will absorb a lot of water before you can use that much of
it. But it sounds like a great effort to help home chemists.
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TheChemiKid
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Would it be possible for you to add phosphorus (red), or some of its compounds (eg. Phosphorus Tetroxide or any of the Halides)?
When the police come
\( * O * )/ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿'̿'̵͇̿̿з=༼ ▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ ̿ ༽
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