| Pages:
1
2
3 |
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3245
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
| Quote: | Anybody knows if this reaction is possible?
NaNO3 + (H2N)2CO ==> NaN3 + 2 H20 + CO2
Perhaps it works if you melt urea and sodium nitrate together at 150°C. Sodium azide decomposes at 300°C. |
Well, any reaction is really possible, it's just a question of weather or not it makes enough of your desired product to be measurable. I can
kind of see where the person that came up with this reaction was coming from, but I don't think it's valid, but that's just a
superficial guess, it might work, but I'm not going to be the one to try it. Normally the high temperature methods involve heating sodium amide
with sodium nitrate or more sanely ammonium nitrate, but both to my knowledge have explosion risks. Regardless of if it works or not I would assume
the yields to be low, no more then 15 - 20% and that's with magnetic stirring, rigid temperature control, and efficient separation of products.
Urea does some wacky things near its decomposition point, I am not going to try and debunk this reaction and have it come back to haunt me.
|
|
|
chloric1
International Hazard
Posts: 1142
Registered: 8-10-2003
Location: GroupVII of the periodic table
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stoichiometrically Balanced
|
|
Azines
Most of us are familiar with Hydrazine hydrate and organic nitrites in alkline alcohol to make azides. The question is if anyone knows if azines or
hydrazones can be hydrolisized to create a hydrazine solution in situo and then react this with ethyl nitrite? Maybe MEK azine, sodium ethylate,
hydroxide and ethyl nitrite? Better, potassium ethylate/hydroxide to get potassium azide
Fellow molecular manipulator
|
|
|
Quince
National Hazard
Posts: 773
Registered: 31-1-2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
In post #9 here:
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:_LsyWqTz_-0J:www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D948+%22sodium+azide+synthesis%22&hl=en
(I have to use the Google cache as I'm not a member of the site and it asks me to login when trying to access the page)
Microtek mentions some chem.pdf file containing hydrazine and sodium azide synthesis (the post that starts with "Yes it is nitrIte, and note that
if you are going to use the hydrazine to make azide, you don't need to distill." .
Would someone that has access to this pdf kindly post the file, or at least quote the procedure here? Thank you in advance.
[Edited on 19-4-2005 by Quince]
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
|
|
|
Quince
National Hazard
Posts: 773
Registered: 31-1-2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Anyone?
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
|
|
|
Rosco Bodine
Banned
Posts: 6370
Registered: 29-9-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: analytical
|
|
Here are the relevant pages extracted from the file . The entire file exceeds the
upload limit .
Attachment: chem(azide pages).pdf (324kB)
This file has been downloaded 5266 times
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
I know this is not OT in that it's not chemistry per se' but it won't last forever as a method of collecting chems. People talk about this but never
give details; so I thought I would add this last bit to this thread.
As a total aside the simple method of gathering azide from an automobile is to access most any American made car from 1993-2000. They appear to have
the largest amount of azide pellets in the air-bag gas generator. The gas generator is installed as a unit in most that I have seen so if you pull one
you get the whole thing, the bag, the gas generator, everything. At a junk yard they will charge you about $5-30 depending upon the model due to the
difficulty in pulling them. There are junk yards that pull them all the time due to an interesting fact. Side-mounted air bags blow when poolry
trained locksmiths try to gain access to the car. You just can't go poking around in the door anymore to try to open the car; you'll pop the air bag.
So anyway, you can find the units for a low overall cost and some of them have a "screen" -like affair where the pellets are; you simply cut into the
screen and retrieve the pellets. Others have a sheet-metal grill with is tougher. You need tin-snips of a quality made for heavy sheet metal work and
it's fast going. - With no exageration you should be able to get a 500 gram bottle filled with not too much work.
I recrystalized the pellets using hot distilled water and the product I ended with was just fine, clean and white. - the largest single unit was from
a dressed up "Eddy Bower" Ford Bronco with about 250 gr. in each. If you want to U2U me about details on this issue feel free; I'm done collecting and
frankly there is SO much out there I can't see this creating a run on the junk yards 
|
|
|
Zinc
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 10-5-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have read somewhere that NaN3 can be made by passing N2O over heated NaNH2 but I don't have any details about this procedure.
|
|
|
Maztec
Unregistered
Posts: N/A
Registered: N/A
Member Is Offline
|
|
Preparation of NaN3
Five grams of caustic soda (NaOH) was dissolved in 50 ml if ethyl alcohol (3A), and the clear portion was decanted in a 100 ml distilling flask
containing 6 ml of hydrazine hydrate. After adding one ml of butyl nitrite (or isopropyl nitrite) the mixture was heated on a steam bath to initiate
the reaction. Twelve ml more of the nitrite was slowly added in such a manner that the mixture refluxed slowly. Addition required about one hour and
the mixture was heated an additional fifteen minutes. The reaction flask was cooled and the solid product collected on a filter. The product was
washed with alcohol and air dried. Recrystallization from water yielded white crystalline material.
Preparation of Isopropyl Nitrite
A mixture of 45 ml concentrated sulfuric acid, 30 ml water and 110 ml isopropyl alcohol, previously cooled to 0 centigrades, was added to an ice cold
solution of 114 grams of sodium nitrite in 450 ml of H2O. Slow addition required about two hours in order to maintain a temperature around 0
centigrades. The upper oily layer was separated and washed three times with 30 ml portions of 5 gram 100 ml sodium bicarbonate solution and 22 grams
NaCl 100 ml solution respectively.
|
|
|
uchiacon
Hazard to Self
Posts: 87
Registered: 3-7-2009
Location: The Jungle(neezeelund)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Financial
|
|
Hey guys,
I was just thinking about whether or not I should make the hydrazine hydrate or purchase it, which is an option to me. For 250g of hydrazine hydrate,
it'd be $50 or about $40USD. I don't have copper/silver/teflon coated labware, and I know the HS and NaOH reaction will eat away at glass due to the
amount of hydrazine hydrate formed.
Presuming that this hydrazine hydrate is of a relatively high concentration, do you think that it's just better for me to purchase the material?
|
|
|
hua xue DIY
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 3-12-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
IN China ,NaN3 is very cheap。
|
|
|
zha ke xue
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-12-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
|
|
In china ，NaN3 is about 7 dollar
|
|
|
uchiacon
Hazard to Self
Posts: 87
Registered: 3-7-2009
Location: The Jungle(neezeelund)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Financial
|
|
lol guys, looks like we might be seeing the beginning of a red invasion! Prepare yourselves for the illiterate commies...
I don't see how what you and yourself bragging about x amount of azide for $7. Why would you bother with two accounts?
Anyway, I'll keep looking into that hydrazine synthesis, but I think in the long run(for anybody who isn't sitting on a decent income and lots of
labware) it might just be better to purchase airbags and disect those. I mean, when you think about it, it's probably about the same amount of risk
either way...
|
|
|
zha ke xue
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 2-12-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
|
|
First,I want to say ,although we are from PRC ,but we are not commie .
Then, Hua Xue DIY and zha ke xue is not one .We are against to the govement of PRC.
|
|
|
Sobrero
Harmless
Posts: 21
Registered: 20-5-2006
Location: Belgium
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lifting my skinny fists like antennas to heaven
|
|
Uchiacon, have a look at the first page of this thread. Rosco Bodine gives a detailed method for sodium azide starting from sodium hydroxide,
hydrazine sulphate, isopropyl nitrite and methanol. The hydrazine (hydrate) is generated in situ. No need at all for fancy labware!
"There exists a world. In terms of probability, this borders on the impossible." (Jostein Gaarder)
|
|
|
quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by zha ke xue  | First,I want to say ,although we are from PRC ,but we are not commie .
Then, Hua Xue DIY and zha ke xue is not one .We are against to the govement of PRC.
|
You are most welcome just as any other contributor here. I am sure that the Moderators feel that as do the overwhelming majority of principled
individuals here.
______________________________________
The price of chemicals in the PRC and MANY places unfortunately reflects cost savings at the expense of the citizen's land & environment. But
generally many companies in the EU and USA inflate prices beyond all reason - simply greed.
|
|
|
aonomus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 361
Registered: 18-10-2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Refluxing
|
|
Just as a bit of extreme off topic, I read about diazidomethane forming from residual DCM in a reaction mixture not being completely removed, and the
subsequent step using NaN3, which reacted with the DCM to form diazidomethane. It totaled a large rotovap and hurt a few people, but no one died.
Now in terms of use for an actual practical explosive, I doubt. Its sensitive to the point where removing the collecting flask from the rotovap which
concentrated the diazidomethane and setting it down was enough.
|
|
|
grndpndr
National Hazard
Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | | Quote: Originally posted by zha ke xue | First,I want to say ,although we are from PRC ,but we are not commie .
Then, Hua Xue DIY and zha ke xue is not one .We are against to the govement of PRC.
|
You are most welcome just as any other contributor here. I am sure that the Moderators feel that as do the overwhelming majority of principled
individuals here.
______________________________________
The price of chemicals in the PRC and MANY places unfortunately reflects cost savings at the expense of the citizen's land & environment. But
generally many companies in the EU and USA inflate prices beyond all reason - simply greed. |
I couldnt agree more.The only thing that has me curious is given the censorship of the net Thanks to PRC government
policy how do you manage?My hats off to you and the bravery it takes to chance communication with the west,and particularly this site with its
controversial subject matter as some of the ignorant would assume.
|
|
|
sonogashira
National Hazard
Posts: 555
Registered: 10-9-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
^Bravery?! It is China not North Korea! 
[Edited on 19-12-2009 by sonogashira]
|
|
|
grndpndr
National Hazard
Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
China,the humanitarian state!?
Ah yes,my mistake! China is the very humanitarian state that censors all aspects of life and responsible for tienamen Square ANd roving execution vans
that harvests innmates organs upon execution according to need for foriegn transplants.Yes that paragon of human rights state known as China ,Those
brave souls. Unles your a resident of NK I would cease and desist Sonongashira..
Hmm sonagashira,sounds japanese, the superior race of the asian east if not the world.I wondered where the superior attitude came from.
[Edited on 16-1-2010 by grndpndr]
|
|
|
sonogashira
National Hazard
Posts: 555
Registered: 10-9-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sir, I can only assume that you are drunk judging by this and the very rude U2U you sent me.
I'm sure it is accepted where you live to hold such narrow-minded opinions, but fortunately the rest of the world is not so impoverished in their
outlook. It is up to you if you are willing to believe such bullshit propaganda, but please do not state it as fact. The thousands of Chinese students
in your country demonstrates the stupidity of your claims.
You are wrong in your assumptions - but I need not wonder where your superior (and ignorant) attitude comes from! God bless you, God Bless
America, God Bless the War on Terror
I sincerely hope that you are met with greater success in your future quest for knowledge.
| Quote: Originally posted by grndpndr | Ah yes,my mistake! China is the very humanitarian state that censors all aspects of life and responsible for tienamen Square ANd roving execution vans
that harvests innmates organs upon execution according to need for foriegn transplants.Yes that paragon of human rights state known as China ,Those
brave souls. Unles your a resident of NK I would cease and desist Sonongashira..
Hmm sonagashira,sounds japanese, the superior race of the asian east if not the world.I wondered where the superior attitude came from.
[Edited on 16-1-2010 by grndpndr] |
|
|
|
hua xue DIY
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 3-12-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Chemistry is regardless of national boundaries。I hope that we will not mind if we are Chinese。As we all love chemistry。
Added:We are here to learn
[Edited on 23-2-2010 by hua xue DIY]
power
|
|
|
Adrian
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 15-11-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello.
I need sodium azide, i like the urea and nickel powder mixture process , any body have the exact formula for mixing.
|
|
|
roXefeller
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 9-9-2013
Location: 13 Colonies
Member Is Offline
Mood: 220 221 whatever it takes
|
|
Sodium azide is extremely toxic. Providing an exact preparation, as asked, when you could find it yourself, is pretty reckless. I get a little spasm
in the posterior just thinking of opening a bottle of sodium azide. Needless to say I get cautious when I do.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Sodazide is available on ebay from a UK-based seller!
A very hazardous compound, as roXe said, it should not be trifled with . . .
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8012
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by roXefeller | Sodium azide is extremely toxic. Providing an exact preparation, as asked, when you could find it yourself, is pretty reckless. I get a little spasm
in the posterior just thinking of opening a bottle of sodium azide. [...]rquote]Yes, sodium azide is quite toxic, but if you fear opening a bottle of
it, then I think it is a good moment to reconsider having chemistry as a hobby. Chemicals need to be treated with respect, but fear is a very bad
guide.
Sodium azide actually is quite easy on storage. It is not strongly hygroscopic and it does not give off vapors of HN3 when kept dry. I have a sample,
which (I discovered later) was kept in a badly sealed bottle, but even after a few years of storage, the NaN3 still is perfectly fine. Many other
chemicals would have been totally spoilt after even just a few months of storage in that same badly sealed bottle. |
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
