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chemcam
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APAN is Acetone Peroxide Ammonium Nitrate.
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Finnnicus
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That seems.... dangerous/unstable/explosive/notagoodidea/idiotic. Thx
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Trotsky
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More than 3kg of ammonium nitrate and tatp? Wtf??
What sort of ratio? Shit that would have to be a kilo of tatp? Fuck, I'm afraid of a gram. I can't imagine driving around town with 3+ kilos of
highly sensitive primary explosive. Imagine what would have happened if he was driving and that went off? Everyone in his car and probably anyone in
a car nearby.
14 days? Insanely light.
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Fantasma4500
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yes and no
1:1 is used for booster and 12/88 (you know what the smallest part is) is used for secondary
apparently this mixture is wetmixed, meaning theres mixed in abit of water..
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Fantasma4500
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Quote: Originally posted by Trotsky  | More than 3kg of ammonium nitrate and tatp? Wtf??
What sort of ratio? Shit that would have to be a kilo of tatp? Fuck, I'm afraid of a gram. I can't imagine driving around town with 3+ kilos of
highly sensitive primary explosive. Imagine what would have happened if he was driving and that went off? Everyone in his car and probably anyone in
a car nearby.
14 days? Insanely light. |
~~APAN~~ not 3.4kg ap.. (:
12/88 for secondary, dont know if it was wetmixed but i heard about it being mixed that way
but yes insanely light
i consider the compound very overrated, back in time i never had one single accident with it, but i washed it very well with water tho.. i guess this
is one of the things that tells if you didnt pay enough respect to it
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Trotsky
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Is APAN mixed in this manner not still a primary explosive? I have only seen it in 1:3 and 1:1 ratios and it was still definitely a primary in that
form. How does this ratio make a secondary? You hit that with a hammer and it's still going off. It's more sensitive than petn. Static will still
set it off. I don't know how well the tatp portion will be at initiating the AN if some of it were to be set off by static, though. I suspect it'll
do a fine job.
Using hcl instead of h2so4 and washing it carefully is definitely the key to being safe, alongside treating it like it's always about to detonate.
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caterpillar
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It is. Once I made such mixture, but 20-30 gr only. Looking backward, I think that it was a bad idea. large amount of a primer (more than 1-2 gr) is
something that must be avoided.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by Trotsky | Is APAN mixed in this manner not still a primary explosive? I have only seen it in 1:3 and 1:1 ratios and it was still definitely a primary in that
form. How does this ratio make a secondary? You hit that with a hammer and it's still going off. It's more sensitive than petn. Static will still
set it off. I don't know how well the tatp portion will be at initiating the AN if some of it were to be set off by static, though. I suspect it'll
do a fine job.
Using hcl instead of h2so4 and washing it carefully is definitely the key to being safe, alongside treating it like it's always about to detonate.
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well i have seen many videos with large amounts of APAN 12 88 ratio
and when you also add water to this to get a slurry i guess the ap makes up for sensitivity making it plausible around... sensitivity of 85 15 ammonal
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar | | It is. Once I made such mixture, but 20-30 gr only. Looking backward, I think that it was a bad idea. large amount of a primer (more than 1-2 gr) is
something that must be avoided. |
well i think its very overrated, as stated before i never had an accident
and what makes the accidents are insane amounts, fuse malfunction, poor neutralization, static electricity (very seldom), handling it wrong as
shock/friction
basically all of these are taking risks while handling it.. you shouldnt ever do that..
but consider that 12% of 3400g was ap
thats 408g pure ap
i have even seen 1 kg handled (abit wet tho)
and nothing went wrong, but im sure you can count making 1 kg as a risk FOR SURE
when handled wet im unsure if it can ignite by static electricity, generally more insensitive.. so for apan it would be the best to not dry it, just
carefully take the water out of it and mix it with fine an powder >>CAREFULLY<< ofcourse
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Trotsky
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People do stupid things every day without dying. That isn't evidence of the safety of what they were doing just evidence that some people get lucky.
Statistics show SO to be extremely unpredictable. Because you've had a good run so far really only means you haven't had a long enough run for it to
go bad.
I haven't had an accident myself but I know for a fact that we'll made and cleaned SO has been known to go off spontaneously. It's usually blamed on
static, I dunno. It could just be one crystal breaking under its weight. If this can happen with a gram, it can easily happen with 400.
Does it really matter that only twelve percent was tatp? If a tiny bit happens to go off you have 3.4 kilos of high explosive detonating. A little
static, some crystals cracking under the weight and boom.
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woelen
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This thread is going the wrong way and becomes more and more k3wlish.
Dealing with 100's of grams of AP is STUPID, very STUPID! That's all what I can say about it.
You risk your own life, but also that of others. If I knew that my neighbor was messing with AP in this way, I probably would report him if he did not
change his behavior after remarks from my side. All people over here, writing that they have safely handled AP in large quantities (be it wet or not)
I consider as stupid k3wls. STOP DOING THAT and don't spread the idea of relative safety to others. There is no safety with AP in larger than 100's of
milligram quantities!
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caterpillar
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Same words can be said about ANY of primaries. 100 gr of dry mercury fulminate is dangerous too. Few percent of graphite decreases sensitivity to
static. Point is that sensitive explosive must be prepared and used in small quantities. Real danger occurs when an initiator has a contact with large
amount of usual explosive. This time must be as small as possible. Insert a detonator into a main charge and run away. But preparation of compounds
(mixtures), sensitive enough to go off after light impact must be avoided.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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Trotsky
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Would 3.4kg of APAN mixed as such not qualify caterpillar?
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caterpillar
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3.4 kg of such mixture could send to play harp not only producer himself, but some innocent people too. Had I known that my neighbor had made such
things, I would have informed police.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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froot
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This topic is about deflagration on impact and here people are posting about kg quantities of unpredictable primaries. I get goosebumps thinking about
what you people are talking about and it's this kind of behaviour that gives chemistry a bad name, pleeeease stop it!
In the interests of experimentalism I'd suggest you design your device so that it's primeable, ie, pull a pin before you throw it kind of thing so
that it cannot go off when you dont want it to. And use something a little more benign to ignite the smoke mix such as NH4NO3 + NH4Cl + Zn + H2O. From
here on its mechanics.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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caterpillar
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Sorry, I had no intention to send same message twice. Nice jokes of my post program.
[Edited on 26-4-2013 by caterpillar]
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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chemcam
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Did you guys not fully read this thread from the beginning? If you had, you wouldn't be giving tips. The OP basically says he doesn't care what it is,
that he is making it for a friend, and when he hands it over it his problem so stability means nothing. This screams k3wl to me.
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | This thread is going the wrong way and becomes more and more k3wlish.
Dealing with 100's of grams of AP is STUPID, very STUPID! That's all what I can say about it.
You risk your own life, but also that of others. If I knew that my neighbor was messing with AP in this way, I probably would report him if he did not
change his behavior after remarks from my side. All people over here, writing that they have safely handled AP in large quantities (be it wet or not)
I consider as stupid k3wls. STOP DOING THAT and don't spread the idea of relative safety to others. There is no safety with AP in larger than 100's of
milligram quantities! |
if you were talking about me handling +10g then it never happened.. infact never more than 1g
but again, if you do handle it properly it wont go off, but ofcourse if you hope youre lucky when handling it careless theres a big chance.. using ap
in more than 100g amounts or just around that is purely k3wlish i agree on that, but still the idea of using it as a secondary is rather interesting
as it isnt really sensitive that way as also wet
but again you need at some point a very big amount of pure ap
theres always a chance of something going wrong even if you dont plan on handling it wrong..
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Fantasma4500
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| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam | | Did you guys not fully read this thread from the beginning? If you had, you wouldn't be giving tips. The OP basically says he doesn't care what it is,
that he is making it for a friend, and when he hands it over it his problem so stability means nothing. This screams k3wl to me.
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agreed.. people should read back in the thread on why there was even being talked about nearly kg amounts of primaries!!
nobody encouraged to make kg amounts of primaries AFAIK
i talked about this whole thing about giving it to a friend who doesnt have respect for it as in what that can go wrong and how it can affect you
i even know another examble of this, guy made pipebombs with gunpowder, kinda k3wlish
what worse is his friend feels abit down decides to make 9shittonnes of drama with it and a pellet gun
where i live theres grenades for sale every year around NYE.. surprisingly you never hear about accidents with these, and theres being sold MANY..
people use them as firecrackers, just the whole idea that people even throw firecrackers at others for fun is insane
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ScienceSquirrel
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Thread closed.
Energetic materials should be about experiments with safe quantities of materials. 3kg of APAN is a life threatening and illegal bomb.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Thread Closed
26-4-2013 at 08:26 |
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