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GreenD
National Hazard
Posts: 623
Registered: 30-3-2011
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Mood: Not really high anymore
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Why not, instead of latitude and longitude use something less telling, like.
Hi.
I'm from the upper midwest.
Besides, I highly doubt that anyone on here is any real threat, especially if actively posting, for any type of fed3ral intervention. I just don't
think they care about us. Unless they make a slip up, want to scare us, or have hired a new recruit who is all for incarceration, I don't think we
have anything to fear. Just don't deal with >500mg quantities of anything, don't start talking like a bee, and don't start asking stupid questions.
Besides, if you're smart enough - you know the many things you can do to dramatically reduce the chance of a federal door-knocking, and if you get to
that point, you best not have your nitro cellulose sitting on your bedroom table.
>> JUST DON'T BE STUPID. Don't be homocidal, don't be a king pin, don't fuck with other people. <<
[Edited on 5-3-2012 by GreenD]
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
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Location: Asperger's spectrum
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GreenD, I believe that a healthy dose of paranoia is necessary when carrying out mad science. But let's be reasonable, there is no privacy whatsoever
on the interwebs. If the authorities really wanted to find you, they can use your IP address and find your house in a jiffy. We are just under the
illusion that we have privacy. Your searches are monitored, your personal information is sold, this is a scary world we're living in. Giving your
coordinates does not expose you in any way, the authorities already have all your personal information at their fingertips.
If you report your coordinates to one decimal point or to the nearest integer, it's good enough to get a general sense of your position on the earth,
but vague enough to avoid immediate trouble. Besides -as you said- most of us are not criminals, so we don't have too much to worry about.
My main concern is that there are too FEW active members on this forum to really benefit from cooperation. Like I said, by looking at the members
list, we are about 11,000 members, but only about 400 of them really contribute frequently, if not on a daily basis.
Advertising would not work in the least, because it could attract K3W15.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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497
National Hazard
Posts: 778
Registered: 6-10-2007
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Mood: HSbF6
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Look up tor.
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GreenD
National Hazard
Posts: 623
Registered: 30-3-2011
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Mood: Not really high anymore
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What 497 said - you don't know about this? 
better make a new account 
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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gutter_ca
Hazard to Others
Posts: 173
Registered: 7-6-2010
Location: California
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Mood: Bored at work!
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Bio Hackspace
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GreenD
National Hazard
Posts: 623
Registered: 30-3-2011
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still waiting for someone from the upper midwest
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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White Yeti
National Hazard
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Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
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Nice find! I definitely think a chemistry equivalent can be done. The problem with amateur chemistry is the large initial investment in equipment and
chemicals. Even though condensers, flasks, burettes and other equipment are very useful, an individual does not use those materials often enough to
offset the initial price.
I like biology a lot as well. I would really like to have my own freezer/refrigerator to store extracts and other fun stuff, but I don't have enough
stuff to store to justify my buying a 500+ dollar refrigerator.
Since this is a DIY type organisation, I'd bet a physics person would be glad to make a refrigerator for us chemists to use.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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Aperturescience27
Harmless
Posts: 39
Registered: 5-4-2012
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Let me just start by saying that this idea is AWESOME!
However, obviously, not too many people are interested in chemistry (no idea why, it's pretty damn interesting), especially with nerds increasingly
turning to computers rather than the real world, so we're few and far between. I think if we made it a hackspace for lots of different kinds of
people, like physics, electronics, biology, etc. rather than just chemistry we could have a lot more people and a lot more capital, and we'd probably
have a lot of equipment in common. We'd also have people to consult on cross-discipline projects. Problem is, how do you decide who pays how much?
Electronics people aren't going to be too happy about helping to pay for our new chemistry stuff, and vice versa.
I'll bet we could find a way to make money using chemistry, any ideas?
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White Yeti
National Hazard
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It would be nice if there was an easy and legal way, but unfortunately, there is no chemical that a hackspace can make that big companies cannot make
more efficiently and cheaply with economies of scale.
[edit]
Perhaps if we made chemicals that are synthesised by a long series of steps no matter what, we could break down a synthesis amongst many different
people and make the synthesis more efficient.
So, say the synthesis of compound X requires 10 steps, 10 different people can get involved. So long as everyone does his/her job correctly, you end
up with a decent amount of a chemical that can be sold for a small fortune.
Applying the principles of the assembly line, everyone will get better (at the step they are in charge of) and over time the synthesis will gradually
become more efficient.
Very idealistic, but still possible to implement.
[Edited on 4-30-2012 by White Yeti]
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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GreenD
National Hazard
Posts: 623
Registered: 30-3-2011
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Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  |
It would be nice if there was an easy and legal way, but unfortunately, there is no chemical that a hackspace can make that big companies cannot make
more efficiently and cheaply with economies of scale.
[edit]
Perhaps if we made chemicals that are synthesised by a long series of steps no matter what, we could break down a synthesis amongst many different
people and make the synthesis more efficient.
So, say the synthesis of compound X requires 10 steps, 10 different people can get involved. So long as everyone does his/her job correctly, you end
up with a decent amount of a chemical that can be sold for a small fortune.
Applying the principles of the assembly line, everyone will get better (at the step they are in charge of) and over time the synthesis will gradually
become more efficient.
Very idealistic, but still possible to implement.
[Edited on 4-30-2012 by White Yeti] |
That is actually a pretty fascinating idea.
ʃ Ψ*Ψ
Keepin' it real.
Check out my new collaborated site: MNMLimpact.com
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Aperturescience27
Harmless
Posts: 39
Registered: 5-4-2012
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Regarding making money with chemistry, I'm just going to throw some ideas out there, I know they're probably not realistic but it can't hurt, right?
There could be some really complex molecules that could be quite valuable, like pheromones and other very selectively-acting biological chemicals.
Pharmaceuticals would require too much legal stuff (for good reason). With so many smart people working together, we might come up with new techniques
for synthesizing stuff, we'd just have to be sure to get patents. Biotech, generally, is big money right now and probably for the next few decades,
and while it's not really my area, I'm sure we've got plenty of people who do know biochemistry pretty well. Personally, I'd LOVE to stick it to
Monsanto. There's also fuels, batteries, etc.
On a separate note, I wonder if we could get local people (near hackspaces) interested in chemistry? If we had open houses regularly to show people
all the cool stuff we'd be doing, they might decide to become members. Not only would this help us, but it would be a benefit to society, getting more
people interested in science, and a benefit to these people, by giving them an awesome new hobby. Children are naturally curious and quick learners,
and we could certainly get them interested, but again, there's a liability issue. Obviously we wouldn't let them into the areas where we keep the
expensive and/or dangerous stuff. Hopefully parents won't prove to be too overprotective.
I've put a thread on the Craigslist "science" forum for Orange County (where I live) asking if people would be interested in creating a hackspace.
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White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
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Location: Asperger's spectrum
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Actually, pheromones are relatively simple chemicals, much like neurotransmitters. You may be thinking of hormones, which can get quite large and
difficult to manufacture.
I'm a biochem person myself, and I'd love to work on the synthesis of biological chemicals. I'm sure there are other biochem people on this forum.
Enzymes are BIG, there are real markets and buyers and prices are exorbitant. You can easily make a small fortune if you figure out how to synthesise
enzymes in gram quantities cheaply.
I personally don't think we should lure more people into chemistry, if they are interested, they should be provided the right tools and be surrounded
by the right people. But the motivation must come from within, otherwise, they'll turn into kewls who are only interested in the end product of a
synthesis rather than the chemistry involved and the work that goes into it. That's if they're lucky, the worst case scenario is that they try to make
phosgene and end up killing themselves.
You live in orange county? I live across the Hudson! Maybe we are all closer together than we thought...
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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Aperturescience27
Harmless
Posts: 39
Registered: 5-4-2012
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Mood: No Mood
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I think we're talking about different Orange Counties, I'm talking about the one in southern California.
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White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
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Mood: delocalized
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Also if I may add, amino acids are very sought after and expensive. If we find ways to synthesise essential amino acids in large quantities from cheap
starting materials, we can generate a decent revenue. Then you have to choose between total synthesis and biosynthesis, both of which are quite
challenging.
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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bbartlog
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
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Amino acids aren't particularly expensive (see: http://www.purebulk.com/ ). Anyway, hackspace is generally not about making money.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win.
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Aperturescience27
Harmless
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That's a good point, we don't want to focus on making money to the point that we forget about science for its own sake.
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Dave Angel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 22-3-2005
Location: UK
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This is something that's been on my mind for a while - either a 'regular' or chemistry related hackspace, as I have neither (well, obviously not the
latter) in my area.
Something I feel we often overlook as amateurs (mostly due to cost) is the analysis of our materials beyond maybe boiling point, specific gravity and
the like.
Whilst a synthesis oriented hacker-lab might raise more than a few eyebrows, and brings up potential legal implications, has anyone considered an
analytical chemistry hackspace?
Now, I'm not saying that a bunch of us grouping together would be able to purchase and run and NMR machine, but an old, second-hand FTIR? Maybe...
On top of that (for example) pro-melting point apparatus, polarimeters, centrifuges and all the other 'little' toys that are just a bit too expensive
for most of us to justify alone would be quite resonable investments as a group. All of this without (the majority of) the legal/societal issues; it's
just another independent analytical lab after all!
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497
National Hazard
Posts: 778
Registered: 6-10-2007
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Mood: HSbF6
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I really agree Dave! Lack of modern testing equipment has to be one of the very biggest barriers to amateur success.
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liquidlightning
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Posts: 66
Registered: 10-5-2012
Location: Washington
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Mood: Witty
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In regard to the map of people who would want to join, how's this? Just add a marker in your general location.
http://zeemaps.com/map?group=388676&add=1
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Dave Angel
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Posts: 128
Registered: 22-3-2005
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Nice idea liquidlightning; you have my location.
So far, the 3 of us who have posted couldn't live much further apart! Let's hope this picks up - I'll stick it in my signature.
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bbartlog
International Hazard
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Added myself.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win.
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White Yeti
National Hazard
Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
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Mood: delocalized
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At least we're all in the northern hemisphere
"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
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daragh8008
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Registered: 15-10-2008
Location: Eire
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I though about the idea of an open source chemistry lab before and came to the conclusion that it wouldn't work here (ireland) as there would be too
many logistical challenges such as insurance, environment,licensing etc. Also if you did manage to get enough members and through all the red tape,
the costs would be significant if you wanted to provide more comprehensive facilities particularly in terms of characterization where even some basic
equipment can be very expensive. I came to the conclusion that this could only be done with governmental support to encourage science through out the
population. And hence I would suggest that people lobby for an open access program to local colleges and universities. (maybe this exists in other
countries but certainly not here) That people can gain access (under supervision or what ever) to government funded labs for research. Imagine if
every college lab had to allow 5% of their time to open access programs. Say 2 weeks in the summer or something. For the most part, those not
interested wouldn't care but imagine the opportunities this would give to the amateur scientist. This goes for all the sciences too. Apply to the
relevant college / Prof. during the course of the year. If they are to keep their funding they have to make it available and publish a time table of
excepted proposals or experiments and reasons why others if not accepted reasons why they were declined. Also it would give the post grads something
new to do for a week or two!
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99chemicals
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I gave my location but I did not want to. I did it for chemistry.
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497
National Hazard
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Maybe a traveling lab ship/barge would make regulatory issues less problematic, and could serve a wider area? LOL
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