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Author: Subject: Recycling copper, working at scale. Suggestions.
Fulmen
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[*] posted on 27-11-2024 at 00:34


Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  
the reaction is extremely slow.

It works, even if it's a bit slow. IIRC the initial reaction is slow, but increases a bit once you have copper in solution. But any air-powered reaction will be slow, that's just the price to pay for free oxidizer. So what? Time is cheap if you don't have to monitor the reaction. I don't think sulfuric acid and air will be any faster.

One benefit of this reaction is that it produces a dense copper carbonate powder of uniform composition, something that is impossible with direct precipitation.




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clearly_not_atara
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[*] posted on 2-12-2024 at 18:32


You might be able to kickstart the reaction with ammonium persulfate like I suggested earlier. It's Cu(NH3)2(+) that gets oxidized by oxygen to Cu(NH3)4(2+)



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[*] posted on 3-12-2024 at 03:50


I think that if you 'burn' the copper eg on a BBQ grill) to form an oxide layer it will dissolve in HCl much easier.
When the reaction slows, burn the copper again.




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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 3-12-2024 at 06:11


That should work, but I doubt it will be fast. And it will require more work and energy. For a small batch it's probably doable but for 20kg? Air oxidation is slow, but it can be done with little effort and a small aquarium air pump. I've done this both with ammonia/CO2 and sulfuric acid, albeit not on such quantities.



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[*] posted on 3-12-2024 at 08:59


Chemicals pricing and availability depends on your location. In most places HCl is the cheapest mineral acid. Can be even cheaper, if you make it yourself and you can easily do it in huge amounts for free or nearly free. Just pyrolyze some PVC, preferably uPVC or CPVC and you'll have gallons of HCl.



From that pile of Cu I would select some somewhat clean pieces and
1) electrolyze in NaCl solution to obtain Cu2O or CuO. Best precursor to Cu salts.
2) melt some cables (purer) to get nice electrode for electrochemistry or cementation of Ag

Other bits, dirty, tiny wires, difficult to strip or mixed with Sn/Fe I would stick in sealed steel paint can or similar and pyrolyze. Gasses pass through water to scrub HCl and then into the fire to neutralize. If the fire is HOT (500+ °C) and the gasses stay there for around 1-2 seconds then all the nasties will get destroyed.
Once pyrolyzed and Cu exposed flood it with HCl.
PET bottles outside work very well. PET is UV stable and bottles wont disintegrate after a while spilling the content. I have PET bottles in full sun for couple years and they seem to be still like new, just dirty :D. I keep the bottles inside old aquarium placed on its side. That way rain doesn't get into the bottles, even very strong wind wont knock them down and the temperature get a bit higher when Sun is out speeding up reactions.
HCl works initially slow, but once some Cu dissolves the dissolution speeds up. If you place and aerator in the bottles then it is pretty fast. Aquarium airpumps work great, they are cheap and need very little electricity. Wouldn't bother with peroxide, too expensive in these amounts and not necessary, especially if you are not in a hurry.

Dissolution by HCl is not as fast as HNO3, but the later is nearly everywhere difficult to obtain and WAY more expensive than HCl.
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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 3-12-2024 at 11:18


HCl + nitrates should work as a substitute for nitric acid.



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