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Formatik
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Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  | Now there's an idea...
Still, this will only tell you if it contians an NH<sub>4</sub>_, not if its contaminated with urea i suppose. |
Right, but why would they mix NH4NO3 with urea? I just don't think that happens. Urea is intended as a replacement to the more hazardous substance.
Note: it looks like there are some cold packs that do have a mixture of the two, but do indicate it is a mixture: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14525 This is rare, though, from all I've seen and heard of cold packs is that they are
either one or the other.
[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Formatik]
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Bot0nist
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Your right. Sorry, I wasn't thinking
. It is most likely either, or.
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hissingnoise
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Why not just buy cheap, fertiliser-grade NaNO<sub>3</sub> . . .
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Bot0nist
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I agree, if HNO<sub>3</sub> distillation is the goal, then there are a ton of cheaper and easier to get nitrate salts out there. I just
use cold packs when I really need some NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub>, as it can be hard to get thanks to McVeigh and pals.
It works better for my cellulose nitrate synthesis than any other nitrate salt I have used, which is why I'm often hunting for cheap first-aid kits.
[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | It works better for my cellulose nitrate synthesis than any other nitrate salt I have used, which is why I'm often hunting for cheap first-aid kits.
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NC by prolonged immersion in strong, mixed acid will make your improvised NC look tame by comparison.
So, if you have nitrate salts and H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> you just need some glass?
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Bot0nist
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I know using nitric is better. I have an all glass distillation setup, and have tried making HNO<sub>3</sub> with it. I had trouble
condensing the acid, and a little leak caused me to get a nice taste of orange. Not fun indeed! I buy my nitric when I need it now, which is rarely.
I nitrate my cellulose twice in the nitrate salt/acid mix for 3 hours each time, and I agitate the mix constantly, which I think helps replenish the
nitronium ions in the solution. I wouldn't call it tame. I have even had luck detonating it once, though I should make some with 70%
HNO<sub>3</sub> and compare it.
[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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hissingnoise
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I must be missing something here - you're afraid of a little NO<sub>2</sub> leaking during distillation but the room-filling cloud of
HNO<sub>3</sub> vapour produced when NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> is mixed with
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> doesn't seem to bother you . . . ?
WTF!
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Bot0nist
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First, I don't 'fill a room' with any harmful gasses. When I add my AN to my
sulfuric, I do it in a slow, controlled way and keep things cool. Gas production is pretty minimal, and a little ventilation doesn't hurt. When I was
trying to distill HNO3, I falsely assumed that my setup was sealed and it was not. This resulted in me breathing in some gasses that made my life hell
for a few days, so I really just don't have a desire to try and distill HNO3 any more. Not to mention I had trouble getting a yield anyway. ( probably
because of the leak.)
It is not fear of toxic gasses that deter me, but the general inconvenience makes it unnecessary for me to try and obtain HNO3 by any other means than
paying absorbent prices for 70% bottles, given the limited amount of uses I have for it. I'm not saying making it is a bad idea that shouldn't be
attempted, just that I prefer not to try it anymore. The NC I make works well for my uses and when I need HNO3, I simply pour some from the bottle.
I meant no offense or confusion to you. I apologize if it seemed otherwise.
[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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hissingnoise
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I'm just puzzled BotOnist - almost to the point of wondering if we're talking about the same procedures . . .
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Bot0nist
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The only procedures I was talking about were the distillation of HNO<sub>3</sub> from a nitrate salt and
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub>, and the nitration of cellulose using a nitrate salt and
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub>. If you would care to be more clear on the cause of your puzzlement, than maybe I can further
clarify myself to you.
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hissingnoise
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Well, I find the distillation of HNO<sub>3</sub> to be problem-free essentially and the use of nitrate salts with
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> to be unappealing because nitric acid mist is produced however carefully the reactants are mixed .
. .
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Bot0nist
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I see. I am glad that you have had an easy time in distilling HNO<sub>3</sub>. I, however, did not. I have no doubt that
all of my problems with that synthesis were the direct result of my own ignorance/negligence, and I do not discourage anyone from attempting
to run that synthesis, as long as they take proper precautions, as it seams to be a really useful and fun procedure.
When I make my nitrating solution carefully I have never noticed any large amount of HNO<sub>3</sub> mist. The mixture fumes slightly
orange as the NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> is added, and then more so when it is agitated. Working with cool acid and really
dry NH<sub.4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> seams to reduce the amount of fumes that I observe. The only time I had serious problems with
the fumes was when I dumped 31g of AN into 55ml of warm sulfuric all at once. This did produce a very large cloud of fumes.
I just happen to find the distillation of boiling acids more unappealing than the creation of an 'improvised' nitrating solution. To each there own, I
suppose.
Also, wouldn't the distillation of nitric acid we were discussing require adding nitrate salts to sulfuric?
[Edited on 17-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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