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Panache
International Hazard
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Mood: Instead of being my deliverance, she had a resemblance to a Kat named Frankenstein
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ritter
Union Carbide produced peracetic acid using 30+% H2O2. The dilute H2O2 from this process was returned to a distillation column where ethyl acetate was
added & the H2O2 concentrated by distilling off the water as the ethyl acetate azeotrope.
I was told about an accident they had where the peroxide concentration sensor failed & the column got to the point where it was at least partially
filled with 99+% H2O2. The resulting explosion launched that column into the next county. |
I figure that was prior to 'fail-safe' becoming common plant vernacular. Is there a process that Union-Carbide didn't have an explosion with, correct
me if i am wrong but it was a Union-Carbide NaNO3 storage warehouse in the US that also exploded once, not to mention their track record in India.
As if in australia government legislative hypocrisy was not blatant enough, H2O2 it is available as a 50% solution here, $79.00/5L, stabilised
though.
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Taoiseach
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I know there're threads on this already but just wanted to bring this up because nobody seems to have tried this yet:
Washing detergents like Oxyclean contain about 15%w of perborate or up to 20%w of percarbonate. Theoretically about 30 grams of pure H2O2 could be
obtained from a kilo - not that bad considering its ass cheap. Neutralization with acetic acid and destillation with minimum amount of water could do
the trick. No risk of peracetic acid forming I think because it requires very low pH (industrial production uses conc. H2SO4 and leaves the mixture
for several days to obtain a high % of peracetic acid). After neutralization the mixture should be stable nuff for careful heating.
[Edited on 8-9-2008 by Taoiseach]
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Taoiseach
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I should do some calculations before posting shit like my previous post 
Actually its not that easy at all.
I found a washing detergent wich says >25% percarbonate on the labeling. Assuming the rest is sodium carbonate, I did some calculations.
Neutralization with 25% acetic acid would give a 3% H2O2 solution at best - worthless  The problem here is the water content of 25% acetic acid (775g/L). Plus you need to neutralize ALL the carbonate ions in the carbonate AND
percarbonate which produces even more water.
Neutralization with HCl might give higher concentrations, but HCl is oxidized by H2O2, forming chlorine.
If one can obtain conc. H2SO4, a ~30% solution of H2O2 should be formed. Thats decent, but then again, if conc H2SO4 is available, so will be conc.
H2O2.
The general observation is: No matter which acid is used, you cannot obtain H2O2 in conc.>30% because of the water produced by CO3(2-)
neutralization. Unless you find a detergent with more than 25% percarbonate content, that is.
Becised, there will be all sorts of ions floating around in the solution, rendering it worthless for synthesis. Thus vaccum destillation is a must.
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Picric-A
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why dont you just by 30% H2O2, it is CHEAP and readily available,
by the time you have found and bought a decent % percarbonate you could of bought the H2O2... no vac. distillation required!
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497
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I don't know how many times this has been said, for all kinds of chemicals in many threads, but I'll say is again. Some people can not buy
concentrated H2O2 (or X other chem) because of location or whatever other reason. Thus saying "Well why don't you buy it???" is totally useless.
Obviously we know it is available in some places, we know whether we can get it or not. Maybe if you pointed out some new source that had not been
discussed, it might be helpful.
Also with all the supposed liquid explosives plots and such, don't be surprised when anything over 3% becomes heavily regulated or totally
unavailable.
Finally, there are many discussions throughout this forum on the synthesis of chemicals that are perfectly available, and yet we want to synthesize
them anyway for various reasons. Just because it can be bought doesn't mean it preparation shouldn't be discussed.
[Edited on 14-9-2008 by 497]
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symboom
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hmm vacuum distillation of hydrogen peroxide with phosphoric acid as the stabilizer so i have a vacuum filtering flask some how have a rubber stopper
with a hose out the top of the flask that contains H2O2 another vacuum filtering flask with sealed rubber stopper and boil off the water at room
temperature.
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