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Rosco Bodine
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I suppose the loose definition of a shaped charge is those charges which
are not shapeless charges , but exist
in some form 
Better for a charge to have some shape
and not just be a globlike amoeba 
[Edited on 2-1-2005 by Rosco Bodine]
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Matsumoto_Hideki
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Please look at defintion of shaped charge
Forget it... this is a hopless forum...
I post good material, I told it is bullshit like my pics and movies.
I post slightly incorrect info and it is also just as bad.
What type of idiotic forum is this?
How about you go AND TRY SOME TESTS YOURSELF INSTEAD OF HINDING BEHIND YOUR TEXTS BOOKS LIKE A BUCH OF SCARED ACADEMICS!
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Rosco Bodine
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Nobody is dismissing *all* that you have shared ....just some of what you say that stretches credulity and leaves you deserving of some heat
for it . Now I still
say the impact welding of the brass fragments *is* still evidence of brisance beyond AP , regardless of the gauge of the sheet metal , or did you miss
that I was vouching for you in that much ?
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mr.pyro
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Slightly Incorrect Info in this hobby will get you killed. Doesn't matter that its just some measely metal, its the credibility at stake for
your future statements. Its not hard, just dont exaggerate, your not here to impress anyone.
But if THe_Rsert, posts here, or anyone that has tried his method, could you please try and get pictures of the "black crystals"
precipitating out of the Black Oily Liquid.
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Matsumoto_Hideki
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Bullshit! Vouching WTF?
Brass will if projected and high speed will score sheet metal (steel) in this case. those grooves are surface scratches, nothing more. That is if you
saw the attached jpg
I don't know were you got that info about AP and brass from? cause it is just WRONG.
DPPP will score sheet steel obviously since the dvol is way beyond AP's , and yes some of those grooves ARE all the way through the metal! I
still can't beleive it myself!
[Edited on 2-1-2005 by Matsumoto_Hideki]
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Rosco Bodine
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What are you talking about ? I am talking about the DPPP charge starburst and embedded particles at the ends of the gouges that look like the little
micrometeorite at the end of its journey
stuck to the steel and reflecting yellow in the light . I am not arguing against you .
Is English a second language for you ?
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Matsumoto_Hideki
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Nope, you saw correctly.. sorry.
English is a second language for me. However I don't type all that well in either language as I am not fast think in compairison to hands. I
speak Japanese as well as english.
ore wa nikagokugo ga shiyodekite, eigo to nippongo mo ryouho perapera tsukaeru!
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Rosco Bodine
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No problem . It explains a lot about the difficulties in pinning down some of the details and the misunderstandings .
I am actually doing some experimenting
concerning DPPP , but trying to identify
many technical aspects which have bearing on the process . I am not hiding
behind any desk , but have three different
projects going on . DPPP is only one of them , but seems to be making progress .
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Chris The Great
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OK, calm down people. Hideki, I understnad your excitement, but it would really improve matters, as well as cut down useless stuff in this thread, if
you double check all your measurements and such, as well as describe some things a little clearer. I can see alot of anger that has come out because
of a slight mistake or a misinterpretation. You've done some great work, but try being more accurate in the future, it will greatly add to your
reputation and help everyone, as they will get good accurate results.
Also, I would suggest taking pictures of the setup and explosives before detonation. I would definatly find that useful in addition to the pictures
of the aftermath.
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Pyroz
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I have tried the same "DPPP" substance in a larger shell casing. In this test I packed a .308 shell 3/4 full and then crimped the end with a
small diameter visco fuse. I made 2 blasting caps-- the other cap was filled with standard acetone peroxide, again 3/4 full. All caps were subjected
to 2 kG worth of compression in a controlled environment using hand tools.
Test 1: Acetone Peroxide cap: The cap exploded on 2mm steel sheeting and a few deep groves appeared. Shrapnel was chunky and was collected easily. A
deep impression formed on the surface but the primer base could not perforate the plate. The primer nippled and the base of the casing was
multilated--fused together.
Test2: "DPPP" cap: The cap exploded on the 2mm steel sheeting and extremely small bits of brass shrapnel had punctured the steel in several
areas. The pieces were to small to recover. The plate was completely blown through at the focal point directly below the primer. From examing the
evidence it would appear that the primer actually perforated the plate--cleanly I might add.
---I ask you all to attempt the same tests and see what you come up with.
I will be uploading photos tomorrow
[Edited on 2-1-2005 by Pyroz]
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chemoleo
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| Quote: | OK, calm down people. Hideki, I understnad your excitement, but it would really improve matters, as well as cut down useless stuff in this thread, if
you double check all your measurements and such, as well as describe some things a little clearer. I can see alot of anger that has come out because
of a slight mistake or a misinterpretation. You've done some great work, but try being more accurate in the future, it will greatly add to your
reputation and help everyone, as they will get good accurate results.
Also, I would suggest taking pictures of the setup and explosives before detonation. I would definatly find that useful in addition to the pictures of
the aftermath. |
I second that, and I should think most people would. And please, STOP diluting this thread with NEEDLESS flaming. Criticism is ok, but keep it to the
point. And Matsumo, the criticism you receive doesn't give you a licence to swear at everyone at this board regardless how injust it may feel to
you.
Take it, and do it better next time.
On the note of constructive advice- Matsumo it also might be wise to weigh each amount of explosive rather than counting the number of grains?!? Or
did I misunderstand?
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
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Matsumoto_Hideki
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flaming.. I am pissed off!
Hey, first of all i don't like being called a lier, secondly
the number of grains was measured via a rifle powder measurement this is accurate for explosives other than NG/NC/ Pyrodex..... and the like.
In both tests 21 grains eqivalent were used. 1 grain = 0.06479891grams. so in total ~1.2g were used each. This is the same gauge that is used to
measure explosives.
3rdly ... If you still are having trouble believing me go ask R_Sert as he has actually done tests that just prove what I claimed on this forum is
100% true. R_Sert claims that DPPP has roughly 5x the brissiliance of TCAP. I for one think he is close to being dead on. Not only are we on to
something here this just may be a break through. NEXT project for me is making DPPP detchord.
[Edited on 2-1-2005 by Matsumoto_Hideki]
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Jome
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Has anyone tried this substance with a 2kg fallhammer?
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Pyroz
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Hideki will NO longer be posting on this board. You may revoke his membership Chemoleo or whomever. I have asked him post somewhere else or I
will boot him off of the LAN server. I do not want my IP to banned again.. thank you.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be taking a video clip of a few different charges today. I'm not sure how large these videos will be and I will apologize in advance for
the low quality.
I will do a few more steel plate tests----- AP vs DPPP and try a lead block test if I can get around to it.
[Edited on 2-1-2005 by Pyroz]
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Rosco Bodine
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Please , if you are not doing so already , when you do a plate test support the plate near the edges with open space underneath , or place it on a
thick sheet of styrofoam , so that the plate deformation or puncturing is not interfered with by the supporting surface ,
which otherwise will make that part of the test meaningless .
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Pyroz
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second test plate
--- I have a word document (2.4 mB) which explains the process that used and aftermath of each test. This my clear up a few questions. I can email
this to anyone who wants to view it.
[Edited on 3-1-2005 by Pyroz]
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The_Davster
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Why not just post it as an attachment?
Anyway, send it to the email addy in my profile please.
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Pyroz
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My file as a compressed PDF
here we are... better yet you can download it in a compressed file format
Attachment: test.pdf (220kB)
This file has been downloaded 1449 times
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Matsumoto_Hideki
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DPPP detcord?
Just pondering the possiblities with DPPP, do you think detcord is able to be made with an explosive (stable) binder? If the DoV is as high as the
patent claims someone here needs to try making Detcord and make a video detonating it.
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Joeychemist
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It's a thought but....
Detcord is only an option if you co-precipitated, re-crystallized or mixed DPPP with some sort of putty, solid or liquid explosives. Simply packing
DPPP crystals into rope, cord or tubing cannot achieve and maintain a consistent density.
Possibly a mixture of MHN and DPPP will achieve a very nice thick syrup like compound, or as Rosco has mentioned a mixture of MEKP and DPPP sounds
very interesting. Anyways the point is that packing crystals into det-cord will work but not as good or reliable as one would expect from the
performance of ones det-cord.
[Edited on 3-1-2005 by Joeychemist]
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Mickhael
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Ok, heres where i am in the synth...
I mixed:
100ml Acetone
105ml HCl Aprox. 31.5 conc
Heated at 75c for 2, 1/2 hours, liquid turned from clear to deep red, lost about 125ml of liquid volume.
Now my questions are:
Q: #1
I can put the solution in ice water at -10c outside, now how much HCl should I add just before the H2O2 to the solution?
Q: #2
Do I add double the first liquid volume (= 410ml of h2o2) or just double the current volume (= 190ml h2o2) ?
Q: #3
I've read that adding to much bi-carb or not enough will both destroy the batch, one by overheating, the other by to extreme a PH, so how much
and how fast should I add the bi-carb, and can I just add the powder, or should it be in a water solution?
Thankyou for any help...I'm hoping to have some good results with the fresh Phorone 
Edit: Light does pass through, but the red liquid is cloudy. I have the container sitting open on a shelf in a warm lit place. And so 5% HCl just
before h2o2? ok.
[Edited on 3-1-2005 by Mickhael]
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Joeychemist
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mickhael
I mixed:
100ml Acetone
105ml HCl Aprox.
Heated at 75c for 2, 1/2 hours, liquid turned from clear to deep red, lost about 125ml of liquid volume. |
You lost that much of the original solution????
You should cover you’re reaction vessel or use a closed or sealed vessel of some form. Anyway add two parts 30% H2O2 to what you currently have.
You’re other questions have already been answered in this thread and the other related threads plus you don’t even mention the specifics like acid
concentration, (not that it will affect much).
As for adding the sodium bi-carb, well I think it’s pretty much a given that it should be added in the form of a bi-carb/water solution.
Mickhael, I sent you a U2U message.
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Pyroz
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Dark red? Can light easily pass through the liquid?
If so..
keep the reaction going until the liquid becomes black. If I would keep it warm for another 24 hours with the lid off. You will have phorone
dihydrogen chloride left over.
Once your solution is black and has chilled for several hours at -5C. In order to make DPPP the temperature must be as low as possiable to prevent a
secondary reaction from occuring ---- acetone formation. Acetone formation seems to occur greatest when the temperture go above 5C . I froze my glass
jar with 1 litre of phorone dihydrogen chloride in a water bath and added 50 mls of concentrated muriatic acid. Then I slowly added chilled 35%
H202--- 150ml's at a time and carefully monitored the reaction temperature.
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Mickhael
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Ok, that makes sense...
I'm just double checking here, i have read hundreds of posts...but done very little of my own synths, so i want to get it right.
Also, that still didn't answer my question about how much bi-carb (water + powder) to use, and if the speed is you need to add it withen 5
seconds, that i've read...that makes timing very crucial! I may have missed it in reading, but i didn't notice anyone who gave conclusive
amounts...or timing.
[Edited on 3-1-2005 by Mickhael]
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Rosco Bodine
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Joeychemist ,
You asked earlier in the thread for me to share any ideas I thought may be worth trying so here goes .
A summary of my present thoughts .
From what I observed in my sealed bottle experiment , using a sealed container is a good idea for preventing the acetone from escaping as vapor . Let
the reaction proceed for the first 45 minutes from its own heat , and then use a hot water bath at about 70 C , and six hours from the first mixing
and sealing of the container is about when you should see a mixture worth an attempt at peroxidation after it stands and cools for awhile . The color
of the mixture should be extremely dark red orange like concentrated freshly brewed tea appears in a glass teakettle , so dark that light just barely
passes through it , but it is not cloudy or opaque . I have some ideas for trying experiments at peroxidation of the mixture at several different
points in the progress of the reaction , according to a general timeline for various markers I observed showing different changes in the mixture , and
the time range of 6 to 7 hours appears to be a promising reaction time for testing .
Also I would use cooling during the peroxidation step , but not cool the mixture quite so cold as some , maybe try to maintain a reaction temperature
of about 15 C during the peroxidation . Getting the mixture too cold is likely to
cause the precursor solution or fine emulsion to separate and be much less susceptible to peroxidation , than if it remains in a solution or finely
dispersed emulsion . The patents ratios would seem about right for acetone with 31.45% pool grade muriatic HCl , and 27% pool grade peroxide . The
peroxide would need to be very cold in advance , and added dropwise with good stirring to the precursor solution , sitting in a cold water bath . The
reverse order of addition may or may not work , but if attempted I would add maybe 20 ml extra HCl to the peroxide before proceeding .
If the reverse order of addition did work and provided adequate yields , the purity of the product would likely be improved by that change . I have
not tested this but am planning on trying it and making any adjustments subsequently which may be needed as refinements .
This regards 200 ml acetone , 200 ml HCl 31.45% and 400 ml H2O2 27% .
[Edited on 3-1-2005 by Rosco Bodine]
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