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JJay
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I am guessing that in some areas, like droplets on the side of the beaker, the water dried up. I am pretty sure that anhydrous lye can absorb
microwaves... that would result in small, dry localized hot areas with no evaporating water. These could quickly become very hot.
I can think of a few ways to test this out, but you probably don't want to try melting lye in your microwave.
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feacetech
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Quote: Originally posted by tsathoggua1  | | Excluding getting it in the eyes, I'm surprised that NaOH, concentrated or otherwise is rated as more hazardous than concentrated sulfuric. At least
with NaOH there is a quick window within which to wash it off thoroughly, due to the greasy layer of saponified fats produced. The only time it gives
me the willies a bit in terms of caution required is when not in solution but in the molten state,, fused NaOH at a few hundred degrees 'C is
definitely rather nasty stuff. I'd still give concentrated H2SO4 my vote for the more dangerous substance however. |
With conc sulphuric acid you have some time to remove it if your skin is dry, had a guy coverd in it (98.5%, face, chest wrists) and he cleaned up for
7 mins before he used a a chelating spay and got under the shower his skin looked a little like a water foul (white/yellow) but healed nicley like he
had a chemical peel, he looked younger after he healed. He did have two small full thickness burns on a couple of spots but at least it wasnt his
face.
NaOH soln (50%) can kill the nerves so you dont know its burning you.
A guy had some in his boot didnt notice until the end of shift when he took his boots off. massive burns to his foot.
Also fine granule (<0.5mm) NaOH burns quite fast,esp nasty if a fleck lands in the conrer of your mouth.
[Edited on 18-5-2017 by feacetech]
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JJay
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I made sure that one of my new lab needles was nice and tight on my glass syringe and tested it by taking up some water out of a beaker and then
squirting it back. Then I tried to remove the needle, and it didn't want to come off. Being the clever sort that I am, I decided to remove it with a
pair of pliers. I held the syringe firmly in one hand and tugged on the needle with the pliers in the other, grasping the needle by the hub. This
worked so well that not only did the needle detach from the syringe, the luer lock nub did as well, remaining firmly lodged in the needle hub. The
syringe was ruined, of course. So anyway, after about 45 more minutes of screwing around with with multiple sets of pliers, heat and cold, cutting
myself twice on broken glass and nearly impaling myself numerous times, not to mention launching the two-inch long, surgically sharp needle across the
room into an unknown and hidden location before hunting it down, the glass nub popped out of the needle hub, thus saving the $1 needle.
I've used lab needles don't remember having any problems, but removing the reusable ones from the syringe seems to be pretty dangerous unless they are
capped... mine are threaded but didn't come with caps... I wonder if I could find caps for them at the veterinary store....
[Edited on 19-5-2017 by JJay]
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tsathoggua1
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I've spilled saturated NaOH (aq) on myself plenty times (not deliberately), when its been steaming hot, and the only pain, as long as its washed off
reasonably quickly tends to be from the heat. Never noticed any tissue damage caused by NaOH in any instance save one. An electrolytic sodium cell
where a little piece formed when unexpected and shot out, taking some NaOH with it. Hit me in the face, wearing eye protection but at the time I was a
fair bit younger and didn't have the blast shield I wear for most everything now. Problem was, it was dead on target, right up my right nostril. Fused
caustic/caustic-Na intercalation grey-blue compound and Na blob. Shot like a bullet from a sniper's weapon, right up the one vulnerable place on my
face. Fused caustic and molten sodium up the hooter ISN'T fun. Burnt/blasted/melted a hole in my septum that hurt pretty badly.
IMO the worst corrosive type accident Iv'e had, is coming so damnably close to having my balls melted off by that chromyl chloride distillation flask
cracking. That, or either spilling SOCl2 on a leather gloved hand, and watching, horrified as it rotted my nice metal spiked leather gloves, steel and
all and went on going to chew through the hand, down to bare muscle. The battery it came from ended up being thrown into a canal nearby as if a live
grenade. Still got scars from that, plus with the same hand, same area, grasping a flask whos neck had an obviously considerable amount of
concentrated perchloric wetting it. Its been 12 years or more since those happened to me, and my hand still looks like a piece of dried meat, and
needs steroid cream and a blade applying sometimes to de-stiffen it enough to make movement easy again, after hacking off the scar tissue.
NaOH just doesn't seem to bother me. I've even had fused caustic spit on me in small amounts and all it does is sting. Caustic potash on the other
hand I imagine would make quite a mess.
One thing I dislike about glass rigs, large capacity ones such as my 150ml one in particular is if held needle angled downwards, the vapor pressure of
solvents can cause them to squirt out, along with anything else that might be in there. That and tendency of the plunger to want to back-slide outward
and things to leak. Not a nice prospect when its full of GAA, or ICl.
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cabal
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I once made the mistake of buying a couple used glass beakers which were unlabelled, but sold as borosilicate. Sure enough, when I first used them to
prepare some NaOH(aq), the heat blew the bottom of the beaker clean off, resulting in my workspace being drenched in lye. Since then I make sure to
only buy beakers which are labelled when buying from a private seller.
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AJKOER
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Always research your on the moment ideas and test new procedures with incremental amounts!
For example, using Oxalic acid which I happen to have in supply, as the acid to be added all at once to NaOCl to make Chlorine gas!
Yes it works, but the exothermic reaction also forms HOCl which causes the H2C2O4 to breakdown creating some water vapor and a mole of CO2 for each
mole of Oxalic acid.
Bottom line, unexpected massive toxic gas evolution!
One possible reaction sequence:
H2C2O4 + 2 NaOCl (aq) --> 2 HOCl + Na2C2O4 (s)
HOCl + H2C2O4 --> HCl + 2 CO2 (g) + H2O (Source: See Watts, p. 250, at https://books.google.com/books?id=PshJAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA250&... )
HCl + HOCl <---> Cl2 (g) + H2O
Net:
2 H2C2O4 + 2 NaOCl (aq) --> Na2C2O4 (s) + 2 H2O + 2 CO2 (g) + Cl2 (g)
Also, one must avoid an excess of H2C2O4 as it can drive the equilibrium chlorine water reaction above to the left as it reacts with the HOCl creating
CO2 at the expense of free chlorine. In other words, Cl2 reacts with aqueous H2C2O4 (see Watts p. 250). Note: the presence of NaCl in the chlorine
bleach could react with H2C2O4 forming HCl also. The observed system is a likely mix of competing reactions with products varying from the moles
specified above as a result of mixing, presence of NaCl, temperature, ....
[Edited on 22-5-2017 by AJKOER]
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mayko
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Hey, at least no one has had a flaming barrel of possibly-chlorine fall from the sky yet! Keep up the good work, everyone!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2GNsjw07v0
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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Melgar
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | One possible reaction sequence:
H2C2O4 + 2 NaOCl (aq) --> 2 HOCl + Na2C2O4 (s)
HOCl + H2C2O4 --> HCl + 2 CO2 (g) + H2O |
In an aqueous solution it doesn't really make sense to think of the reactive species as whole molecules, since they split up as ions and are no longer
attached to each other. If any acid will bring about a reaction, you can just write "H+" instead of the whole molecular form of the acid. The first
reaction is just salt metathesis, and isn't needed because sodium oxalate is water-soluble, and stays in the reaction. The second can be written as:
OCl(-) + C2O4(-2) + 2 H(+) --> Cl(-) + 2 CO2(g) + H2O
You just need to make sure all the electrons are accounted for, like you would atoms.
[Edited on 6/5/17 by Melgar]
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AJKOER
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar |
In an aqueous solution it doesn't really make sense to think of the reactive species as whole molecules, since they split up as ions and are no longer
attached to each other. If any acid will bring about a reaction, you can just write "H+" instead of the whole molecular form of the acid. The first
reaction is just salt metathesis, and isn't needed because sodium oxalate is water-soluble, and stays in the reaction. The second can be written as:
OCl(-) + C2O4(-2) + 2 H(+) --> Cl(-) + 2 CO2(g) + H2O
You just need to make sure all the electrons are accounted for, like you would atoms.
[Edited on 6/5/17 by Melgar] |
Well yes and no. For example, HOCl is almost completely the molecule in practice. As an example, the reaction of chlorine and water in the presence of
a metal oxide, followed by distlling, is a cited path, as I recall, to HOCl. Possible explanation:
Cl2 + H2O = H+ + Cl- + HOCl (See equation (3) at
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es00015a014?journalCode=... )
And the metal oxide largely removes the H+ and the volatile HOCl/Cl2O is distilled off. Further details as to which metal oxides or a carbonate (best
CaCO3), see Watts page 908 at https://books.google.com/books?id=2OJYAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA908&... .
[Edited on 7-6-2017 by AJKOER]
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Velzee
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A few weeks ago, for Memorial Day, and mostly to appease my friends' interests in pyrotechnics, I decided to attempt to make a small amount of TATP
(yes, I know, and I've learned my lesson with this compound). I made two critical errors:
1) On my first attempt(after around a year since my last go at making TATP), I used HCl as a catalyst, and did not cool the reactants **BEFORE**
mixing them together and putting the mixture in the fridge. I went to go check up on it around twenty minutes later, and noticed it was boiling, and
the plastic wrap I had covered it with had developed a US quarter-sized hole. I noticed an odd, pleasant, chlorine-like aroma coming from the fridge.
I closed it, and began to felt like I was going sneeze. The best way I could describe it, was imagine eating a spicy pepper, and the spice building
up. Replace the spiciness with pain, multiply it by a few levels, and that's how my nose was feeling after ten seconds. Tears literally started
pouring out of my eyes as the pain and burning sensation in both my nose, and my eyes, AND my throat was beginning to overwhelm me in a way I've never
experienced in my life. Turns out I accidentally made chloroacetone, a tear gas. It had to be one of the most painful experiences I've ever had.
2) After the experience from above, I decided to make one more batch, making sure every single reactant was thoroughly cooled, I accidentally made WAY
TOO MUCH TATP than I needed. I made almost 5-10 grams. Well Memorial Day came and the product wasn't dry enough yet, so I had to wait until a few days
after to start using it. I took a small lump of product and used an incense stick (burning with a flame) to entertain myself and to slowly get rid of
the product. It went off with a small poof, and so I attempted to proceed, but since the stick was burning too quickly, I blew out the flame and just
decided to use the smoldering stick to ignite it. Mind you that I chose a lump probably the size of a small grape, and I placed it on my hotplate
which was less than arm's length from me. I touched the incense to the TATP, and I watched as it disappeared with a very small flash, but immediately
noticed that I couldn't hear anything from my left ear(which was facing directly towards the hot plate), and my right ear was badly ringing, like you
see in the movies. Quickly, I could hear again, but my head was ringing the same way for about ten minutes, and didn't stop fully ringing until after
about three or four days afterwards. Needless to say, I disposed of the rest of the TATP properly, and I don't think I'll touch that stuff ever again.
There's a reason why it's frowned upon by most chemists with common sense. Unfortunately, I had to learn the hard way.
Check out the ScienceMadness Wiki: http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Main_Page
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
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Melgar
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | | Well yes and no. For example, HOCl is almost completely the molecule in practice. As an example, the reaction of chlorine and water in the presence of
a metal oxide, followed by distlling, is a cited path, as I recall, to HOCl. |
Then all the more reason to write the formula with ions instead of molecules. You could make that fact clear in the formula by writing:
HOCl + C2O4(-2) + H(+) --> Cl(-) + 2 CO2(g) + H2O
The net charge is -1 on both sides, making it clear that the reaction is balanced. It also makes it clear that H+ ions are being used up, and thus
the reaction will make it less acidic and slow over time.
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tsathoggua1
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Somebody sent a fair sized quantity (lab scale, 1.5-2kg or 2.5, I forget, but enough to have nearly made a big pain in the ass mess) of ordered NaNO3
by just putting it in an unlabelled food wrap bag, thinner than a tobacco salesman's grasp of the moral high ground if it grew a kate moss-sized coke
habit. This was wrapped in just a thin piece of cardboard taped together, by curling the cardboard around the bag, no packing or anything)
So, of course, the moment I slid a blade into the tape, the outer part sprang apart and the inner bag was slit open, spilling NaNO3 on my lap. Got it
all recovered, thankfully, but the guy is a dick for choosing such lousy, stupid a way to pack the stuff. Didn't even have the courtesy to do anything
but send an unlabelled sack of white powder, that if opened at customs could for obvious reasons attract unwelcome attention. Didn't actually LOSE any
of the nitrate in the end bar a few grains scattered about on the carpet, but no more than a pinch or so. But only because there was somebody else
present to go and grab me a sheet of paper to slide under where it had fallen, if I'd been alone about an average sized drinking mugs capacity would
have gone everywhere since I'd have had no option but to move to get it myself.
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JJay
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I tried making some concentrated ammonia solution by producing ammonia gas with sodium hydroxide and ammonium sulfate and bubbling the gas through
water, and there must have been a leak in the apparatus because the resulting solution is pretty weak and the neighborhood smelled like it was
downwind from a leaking refrigeration plant. I've done this before with no problems, so I'm not really sure what the issue is, but I think I might try
changing the hoses.
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tsathoggua1
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Try the following:
Use dilute (or as strong as you have already) aq. NH3 rather than H2O.
Use a diffuser airstone as used in aquaculture to help bubble the NH3 through it.
Keep the NH3 and solutions as cold as possible without freezing to permit more and easier uptake.
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JJay
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I have gas drying bottles to use as bubblers, and the solution never got hot as it has in the past... there had to have been a leak somewhere; I just
don't know.
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Melgar
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Forgot I had some benzaldehyde on my hands, then went to take a piss. Words cannot describe the agony. For such a pleasant-smelling chemical, it can
be surprisingly evil.
[Edited on 6/28/17 by Melgar]
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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NeonPulse
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | Forgot I had some benzaldehyde on my hands, then went to take a piss. Words cannot describe the agony. For such a pleasant-smelling chemical, it can
be surprisingly evil.
[Edited on 6/28/17 by Melgar] |
A rather painful lesson on why we should wear gloves. Ouch.
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Melgar
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Not when taking a piss though! I actually did have them, but I think I took them off specifically to use the bathroom, and had to hurry to get back
to the reaction I was monitoring. And of course, in the rush, got some benzaldehyde on my hands somehow and didn't realize it.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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aqueous_solution
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | Forgot I had some benzaldehyde on my hands, then went to take a piss. Words cannot describe the agony. For such a pleasant-smelling chemical, it can
be surprisingly evil.
[Edited on 6/28/17 by Melgar] |
youch! The inverse is accidental numbing. I used to use lidocane / benzocaine mixture cream to deal with some topical nerve pain and onetime forgot to
wash my hands before using the bathroom after application. Couldn't feel my shorts for about an hour and a half.. loll.
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wayne_m
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| Quote: | | Butyric acid isn't pleasant at any temperature, it just smells like puke threw up, ate its own vomit and washed it down with a cup of cold sick.
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Such a way with words!
Where we work, we use some paints that I have described to my wife as smelling like one of The Walking Dead ate another dead guy, and then took a
dump. It's awful. The smell clings, and the only thing you can do is rub some Vick's under your nose or sniff some H2S. (Not recommended.)
My latest (in a long line) of failures is in electrolyzing NaOH. The chinesium pot that I was using (it was stamped "stainless" but I have my doubts.
Can you electroplate stainless? Would anyone be THAT cheap?) developed a 5mm hole right in the center and dumped a pound of molten NaOH right
onto my hotplate. Thankfully, it wasn't expensive, but wouldn't you know it... The hotplate survived. The table under it suffered Unfortunate
Circumstances.
When that much hot lye lets loose, there's only one thing you can do. Stand back, wait for it to cool, and chip it off of anything you want to keep.
So now I'm down one very inexpensive pot, a pound of NaOH, and a table, and up by a bucket where I dump aluminum scrap. Someday, I'll use it to make
some new alumina catalyst beads or something. I can probably also use it to dump acidic waste, if it won't interfere with that.
As to cracked glassware: I have a 250ML 2 neck RBF that I particularly liked that just randomly got a star crack that spread into one of the necks. It
was fine when I put it in its drawer, and when I opened it the next day, there it was. One: WTF? Two: Why couldn't it have happened BEFORE I spent
fifteen minutes and several ounces of acetone washing out the tar from the last reaction?
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tsathoggua1
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Benz-dick doesn't sound much fun.
But Tsath'll bet dollars to donuts that it isn't as bad as permanganate bollock. You all probably know its propensity for tiny little bits getting
everywhere, that only show up when wetted? well gloves or no gloves, obviously got some on my hand or hands, and after going to the bog, having
stripped off his gloves, err....long story short? that day he should have washed BEFORE he wiped. Had a MnO2-impregnated, brown-burnt speckled scrotum
for roughly a week or so afterwards, right from nackers to chocolate starfish, which, for the same length of time burnt like the searing, raging fury
of satan's own personal soul-barbecue during a heatwave in one of the more tropical regions of perdition, if Old Scratch decided to light the coals
with a thermal lance in place of the more traditional petrochemicals and a match. Bird's eye chilli pepper residue on your fingers making it into an
eye has NOTHING on pot perm nackers. Jesus bloody H, the searing fires of hell came to the mortal realm for a week that day. Fuck me diagonally with a
sock full of rabid AIDS-infected mink...god fucking damn that HURT. Didn't realize it at first, it was only a little later, when it first began to
sting and itch. So, of course what do you do when your balls itch? doesn't take a scientific genius to work that one out.
Nor, does it take one to realize that the usually appropriate course of action for itchy nuts was that day, merely the equivalent of slathering on
more KMnO4. Felt like I was pissing SOCl2 and crapping phosphorus for the rest of the sodding week. Ended up getting desparate enough to get a tube of
dental anaesthetic gel (benzocaine or lidocaine 20% and cover the afflicted nether regions with it frequently, and even apply it up the damn jap's
eye) The one-eyed trouser-serpent got bit this time, rather than doing the biting.
Ever since then, Tsath' has been meticulously careful to the extremes to fully soak his hands in water before going to the bog after using
permanganate.
JJay-if it gets in your eyes it certainly is. Been hit in the face twice over thus far into a lifetime with it. Once as a kid, and once, much worse,
blasted in the face by a very forceful jet of a mixture of pretty much a catalog of the things in terms of alkaline entities you'd least like to have
hit you in the face. Base slops, well, dry, so not sloppY as such, but the basic garbage bucket. It had been labelled, but LE tampered with it and
removed the label. Instead of a little hydroxide and carbonate, as the UNlabelled base bottle had in there, which on adding water would have gotten
warm and nothing worse, instead had alkali metal amides, alkoxides, NaOH, possibly KOH in there. Label taken off, bottle left there. Was wearing
goggles, but added water, capped it, shook to dislodge what was believed to be a solidified chunk of hydroxide and carbonates/bicarbonates, only to
see the bottle swell, and in a fraction of second go from room temperature to too hot to hold. Gripping onto it and ignoring the pain, because Tsath'
knew full well what was about to happen, and the only thing that could be done was to hurl it as far off out of the back door into the garden as
possible before the overpressure and heat burst the bottle and scattered the contents and plastic shrapnel everywhere, did so, but as it spun out of
Tsath's hand, it chose just the precise moment during its turning arc of flight to melt/burst through the cap and as a result, hit him at an upward
angle from fairly close range with a boiling, searing hot gout of ammoniacal steam from the decomposing alkali metal amides, boiling caustic
soda/potash, decomposing alkoxides and the alcohols coming from them and bloody hell only knows what else, hard enough to near rip the goggles off his
head, forcing the jet of boiling bases right into his eye. Was lucky not to lose the eye according to the eye specialist, unsurprisingly.
Probably only because of keeping focus and responding as near to instantaneously, within maybe 4-5 seconds at most, and irrigating the shit out of the
eye under the cold tap, whilst at the same time, scrubbing clean the areas of neck and top of head it also doused, washing the caustics out of Tsath's
hair (and that itself wasn't much fun, he has very long hair, down to about the solar plexus in length) before ringing for an ambulance, sticking some
benzocaine in the eye, to enable him to hurriedly take apart the reaction he had going at the time (a Birch-Benkeser type reaction conducted in-situ
in diisopropyl and diethyl ethers [note-not to be taken to mean he was doing the notorious methamphetamine synthesis known as 'shake and bake' but
rather, employing a solvated electron type reduction employing an ethereal suspension of lithium metal on a freezing mixture bath at somewhere a
little below -30, not enough to condense anhydrous ammonia, but no need to with the modification being used, which in short, employs inert gas
coverage, strong stirring with very small bits of Li, in fact battery lithium is preferable due to its thinness and large surface area, pre-forming
the blue-black of solvated electrons with a stream of anhydrous NH3 gas, generated from ammonium sulfate and base and led through a drying tube and
precooler before being piped into the ether containing the Li or other alkali metal to be used through a diffuser stone, waiting until the
stoichiometric quantity of Li has been reacted, before adding a solution of the compound to be reduced in an alcoholic thick slurry)
Rang for an ambulance, numbed my eye so I could see where I was going with the unhurt eye, added the pre-prepared alcoholic slurry of substrate,
hurriedly, admittedly, but given the circumstances it was justified; then set up to vent the NH3 coming off as the setup warmed up to RT through a
drying tube, disconnecting the gas source, and sticking it outside and stashing everything out of view should the medic crew enter the room in
question without permission.
Had (not comfortably whatsoever) PH test strips poked in the affected eye, and the bloody surface of the eyeball that took the stream of chemical
wastes was at PH >12 on arrival at the hospital.
Still haven't got good vision in that eye, although Tsath' is told that his eye, physically at least is healing as well as can be expected given what
happened to it. Unbefuckinglievably painful though at the time. Still on an increased dose of strong pain meds (morphine and oxycodone) months after
the accident (was already taking pain meds, have been for a long time, for an injury unrelated to chemistry that happened long ago, and is not going
to get any better, plus some accompanying nerve damage that happened after having surgery to try and correct the problem, as well as bilateral
trochanteric bursitis, which is no fun at all either, so was already on a fair dose of opioids, but taking another 80mg or so of oxy a day now.
Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less depending on quite how loudly various bits of me start to scream in protest at continuing to be
attached to the rest of me.
That aside however, NaOH, even concentrated, as long as its washed off, never seems to bother me much, so long as its washed away without taking ages
to do so, in solution or as prills/powder at least, the fused, molten variety is another kettle of fish entirely. Molten NaOH is wicked nasty stuff.
Especially when it comes from molten Na metal flying up the nose out of a bath of fused hydroxide under electrolysis as mentioned earlier in the
thread.
Cocaine habits are notorious for burning holes in septums. But at least had that been the cause of the crater blown out of Tsath's, there would have
been some enjoyment before hand, instead of 'go straight to blasted, corroded septum, do not pass go, do however collect a glob of molten Na up your
nose' like some manner of demoniacal monopoly board game.
Just recently had two awful lab fuckovers. First-a container of nitroalkene, in methanol, being treated with bisulfite solution, mistaken for dirty
water by somebody else who promptly tipped the entire lot down the drain. Second-the replacement nitroalkene created to fill the empty void left by
the stuff poured down the drain, having been reduced to a ketone and thence reacted with NH2OH/NaOAc in MeOH to give the ketoxime, after meticulous
cleaning of the nitroalkene and vacuum distillation of the ketone, Tsath' was, finally, after working his arse off to get back where he started,
making sure everything was clean and properly worked up, ketoxime in a large sep funnel. Couldn't sleep well the rest of that night, and was
exhausted, and just as he got to sleep, what did he hear but a sickening crash and the sound of shattered glass, as some CUNTING MORON, the same piece
of dog shit made incarnate responsible for tipping the original nitroalkene down the sink, knocked the funnel to the floor, smashing it to pieces and
completely ruining all but maybe at most a gram or two of the ketoxime which had been isolated beforehand, the rest...all gone, all over the floor,
and being woken by somebody bellowing in Tsath's face to clean up the mess they fucking made for them.
There are really no words which adequately describe the ice-cold fury and loathing Tsath' has for this worthless piece of trash individual now. Who
not only didn't even bother to apologize, either time, but thinks they can refuse to replace the funnel. Cost over £100, saved up for over months it
was. And with the work that Tsath' had spent day and night, over and over, without sleeping for many days, over the course of at least two weeks
working it up to satisfactory purity, probably a bit longer. Gone in an instant. And being woken up abruptly at about 7am having just got to sleep and
finally begun to get the much needed rest, rather than the occasional short cat-nap for half an hour here, an hour there once in a while, by a
selfish, selfabsorbed, hypocritical fucking prick who expects everything from Tsath' but is completely unwilling to give what he demands and claims
entitlement to when the tables be turned and something happens that (although shit for brains dogfucking toss-wad isn't a chemist) makes a mess, or
breaks something, but won't show the same consideration to others. Acts like its one rule for himself, another for Tsath' and everybody else. Wants
things doing for him, but won't do the same thing for the same reason in return.
Needless to say, he IS paying for that funnel. Whether he knows it or not, and whether he wants to or not. Even now, days later, that fury is seething
and roiling, as if it were an ocean of virulent poison just under the surface. Can hardly look at the prick without wanting to cave his skull in and
ram whats left of the funnel up his arse, sideways, after heating it with a blowtorch until just short of its softening and the sharp edges dulling.
All that could be saved was the stopper, a metal keck clip and the stopcock.
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JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline
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Oh, I've been sprayed in the face and eyes with liquid ammonia a couple of times, miraculously with no injury. It's nasty stuff, but it's scarier than
it is dangerous. It's best to wear a face shield around it, but that's more for comfort than safety unless the liquid ammonia is spraying like a
garden hose, in which case you might get frostbite if it hits you in the face, and you'll want a gas mask and/or SCBA. Goggles are mandatory.
I've never had any accidents with alkali metals or hydroxides (or amides, alkoxides, etc.), but I'm sure they aren't fun.
Sounds like your lab partner is a major drag on your operation....
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tsathoggua1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 335
Registered: 8-1-2017
Location: Beyond the pale
Member Is Offline
Mood: Phosphorescent
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Not a lab partner. Don't have one. Just a selfish relative who is not a chemist. And has no idea how close they came, after that to ending up
seriously hurt. Not because of the oxime, that wasn't anything dangerous, but because being such a total fucking piece of dog shit can prove hazardous
to health. He fucked off out of the house for the rest of the day and it was lucky he did, whilst I ended up taking a couple of 5mg nitrazepam tabs
that I have a repeat rx for, a solid dose of chlormethiazole and a shot of maybe 700-something (I forget the exact quantity of the 'something' of
morphine dipropionyl ester/morphine/oxycodone mixture [again, on RX, the dipropionyl ester aside, pretty sure it isn't used clinically in this
country, although terminal patients, possibly some replacement therapy for addicts and cancer patients sometimes get diamorphine. Beats me why they
don't use the propionate ester more frequently in medicine since it is actually vastly superior in all respects, its several times as potent by weight
as diamorphine, it is faster acting, and rather than the 5-7 hours or so action from a single dose of diamorphine, with the dipropionate ester expect
over double that. 8am dose lasting to about 10pm isn't unknown or uncommon, and it also produces less histamine release. Note that the above dose OR
combination is NOT reccomended for anybody not used to chlormethiazole etc.-I have to take it, for seizure prophylaxis, although it isn't licensed
here for that indication, I prefer it since I've been able to take it several times daily for years, and abruptly stop for a couple of days if I have
to without a taper and experience no withdrawal effect, with a benzo, I'd be in big trouble doing anything like that unless having reached a
steady-state plasma level/deposition in body fat of a potent, long acting one, I only use the stuff for a couple of days at most consecutively, 3 days
max when its needed. And that dose of dipropionylmorphine is the equivalent of several grams of morphine sulfate, so really, don't try anything like
that high if you want to wake up again!)
Since that incident with the getting hit in the face, bought a face shield and wear it when working with anything remotely toxic, irritant or
corrosive unless it is a non-volatile, non-reactive entity that just sits there until something further be done with it. Goggles will do for things
like non-glacial acetic, or conc. HCl (over the years, I've come to the conclusion that with HCl, that sans actually DRINKING it, administering it as
an enema, eyewash or intravenous/intrathecal/IM/SC injection, I must have developed or been born with an immunity to HCl. Even hanging around for a
while (not by choice, rather, whilst doing something which for safety reasons cannot be permitted to simply run itself unattended, like distilling
CrO2Cl2 from hot 99%+ sulfuric, or running a Cl2 generator whilst distilling ICl at the same time, distilling bromine and the like, to walk away and
clean off a soaking in some HCl was by far the greater evil than leaving the conc. HCl. Didn't do my clothing any good mind you but noticed no
irritation either during the ICl distillation and synthesis of more of the same reagent to add to the still pot. In an open cut or graze etc. then
yes, it hurts as expected, but was surprised to find out that the area where it had soaked into the clothing and stayed there throughout the
distillation/synthesis/maintaining the chlorine generator and topping up the reactants within, which is where the HCl came from, oxidation of HCl by
KMnO4 and to a degree by any MnO2 formed on its way to being converted to manganese chlorides, the area wasn't even pink, or at least, no pinker than
my caucasian skin tone evolved to be, no irritation, except one small spot where an IM injection of my pain medication had previously been
administered that day, which did sting and itch where HCl gained access to the puncture from the needle.
The assumed lab partner isn't, and would never be either (did allow him to hold a hand-drill steady once to manually stir some methanolic
triethylenetetramine freebase whilst adding GAA to produce the tetraacetate salt for a knoevanagel catalyst [for which in Tsath's experience, btw, if
ever doing a knoevanagel/henry condensation it seems, when using benzaldehyde at least, or 2,5-4-alkyl-benzaldehydes, then it works something amazing
but that, and occasionally passing an empty pipette to be hend in the other hand when measuring out more GAA) is the absolute limit of what little
trust I'd put in him. Maybe I'd allow him to measure out and hand me a plastic beaker of water and turn the cold or hot tap for himself, but
otherwise, I wouldn't trust him so far as to have confidence he'd burn if I were to skin him alive, roll him in caustic potash flakes then drop him
from a great height into an olympic swimming pool full of chlorine trifluoride. Which, to be quite honest, given the way I am going to have to extract
the money for that funnel from him and the way he outright refused even to APOLOGIZE after both tipping Tsath's nitroalkene and unreacted
benzaldehyde's bisulfite adduct down the sink, or after breaking the expensive separatory funnel with the valuable contents, made with, TETA-acetate
aside, both valuable and difficult to purchase with safety nitroethane, plus the solvents, plus the hydroxylamine used to create an oxime, plus the
reagents used to prepare the ketone (not valuable, or difficult to safely buy, but still neither are they things to be just trashed, nor are they
things that, environmentally speaking ought to go down the drains) although the ketone in question, was one of considerable value.
And saying nothing of the weeks spent in preparation, relentlessly working days, and nights without more than at most a few hours rest every few days
preparing, and purifying whilst worked-out to a point way, way well past exhaustion. And being woken up at 7-8am by having somebody bellowing in your
ears...I'd very much take delight in skinning him, salting him with KOH and tossing him into that olympic swimming pool filled with ClF3. Preferably
with an air supply and face protection so he'd last marginally longer before expiring in agony. Could have replaced it for my recent b/day even, but
didn't even bother to do that (or anything else).
I'm not a hateful person generally, unless it comes to LE, after the abuse and harassment and illegal actions taken by them, theft of property (that
had no relation to chemistry, things like an 8.5 carat precious gemstone and a second, smaller one went missing from their containers. And those were
meant to be set into a silver ankh necklace Tsath' is making for somebody he likes, a lot. Those stones were there before the filth came, and after,
they were gone, and containers opened. They don't just jump off shelves and out of closed containers by themselves and run away. There is only one
explanation)
But in this case, family member or not by blood. He is a relative in terms of genetic material alone, and no family of Tsath's. Not anymore. Prick
knows full well how much Tsath's lab is cared for, how it is his lifetimes work, that over time tens of thousands of GBP have been spent on it (twice,
possibly thrice over having to restart from scratch) and that he works day and many, many many nights without a wink of sleep in there for days and
nights on end, that his lab is his pride and joy treasured below nothing else he has ever owned and can't even be fucked to APOLOGIZE? and when the
work in question was something for Tsath's birthday too since Tsath' was the only one did anything about that. Or tried to, at least. (although
belated or not, he is determined that it must still happen, no matter how long it takes. Even though replacing the funnel means going without food
for a week, once the last bits of his mostly-eaten piece of cheese are gone)
Say, anybody have a few tens of thousands of liters of chlorine trifluoride they want to give away for free, by any chance? and maybe a spare olympic
sized swimming pool in a soundproofed room?
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | | Oh, I've been sprayed in the face and eyes with liquid ammonia a couple of times, miraculously with no injury. It's nasty stuff, but it's scarier than
it is dangerous.. |
Member Tacho somehow got a face full of ammonia. Opening a bottle in his hot attic lab, IIRC. He quit home chemistry after that. Too bad, he was a
gifted experimentalist.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline
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People often think they need to be hospitalized from breathing less than 20 PPM. It's dangerous stuff, but it's nothing compared to sulfur dioxide,
hydrogen sulfide, chlorine, hydrazine, bromine, phosgene, titanium tetrachloride, etc. Even sulfuric acid is arguably more dangerous.
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