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oxybate
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Intelligent Acquisition of Reagents
In this day and age, I am - as you might well understand - very much hesitant to purchase reagents through secondary means (ebay, small "lab
supplies", etc) despite the innocuousness of my intentions. As someone who keeps constant lookout on the legal developments and privacy erosions
occuring in this country for reasons other than my desire to pursure a hobby in chemistry, I am well aware that merely being on the right side of the
law, has little value to one's safety as a free citizen. All it takes is a desire on the part of prosecutor to "do you in", or "set an example" and
you are a goner, regardless of how you walk the legal line. Without revealing too much - I have relatives whose careers as attorneys are funded by
these sorts of cases.
That said, I am impressed to find a forum of those (I imagine, however, many are outside of the United States) who continue to engage in what has
essentially become a taboo interest.
So I ask of you, several questions - some sociological, some concrete:
1. What keeps you doing what you do? Is it an intentional protest against the Orwellian direction of our society, or is it a blind interest to
continue researching what you want to? In readin your posts, some of you are clearly brilliant (my parents say so - see later) and obviously
well-educated.
2. In your travails, what have you learned about the safe purchase of chemicals? Is eBay for the most part safe? Are oxiders, presumptively
considered to be "bomb-making" chemicals? Can one order glassware without bother? Apart from what one would expect to be "watched" (I mean, who really
has a legitimate need for MD-P2P? Anyone buying that should clearly expect a visit from the DEA), what are the informally "watched" chemicals? Will
glacial acetic acid cause Johnny law to jump down my back? You'd think I'd know this given my family background, but in reality, access to these
things without need for purchase has made me painfully unaware. Now that my folks are both retired, I've come across a barrier I hadn't realized was
so goddamned scary.
3. For the hardcore, how many chems do you buy a month?
4. What has been the scariest you've ordered?
I ask because I get such mixed messages from reading through this forum, and find it difficult to separate the internet "bravado" from the reality,
know what I mean?
As much as this post asks alot, considering that I'm a newbie, I hope you understand my intent - that is, to get to the bottom of the climate that
currently exists in the US and to be able to deftly navigate it. My first chiild was just born and I want to teach him the absolute magic of chemistry
- there are no more magical parts of a young child's education.
As an anecdote: about 10 years ago, my mother brought home some fuming nitric acid and some other assorted chemicals from her workplace to indulge me
in my love of chemistry. A neighbor reported us to the police, after me trying to dissolve a penny and there was such a brouhaha that it took leverage
of her status as a well-respected chemist/director at a well-known chemical company (who paid enough tax in the commmunity to scare the bejesus out
of the self-appointed Gestapo) to stomp the MCarthyist inquisition by the McPolice of my McSuburb. I can't imagine what would havve happened had she
not been as influential as she was. I was trying to dissolve a f*cking penny.
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Maya
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Okay Mr. attorney/ prosecuter:
<< 1. What keeps you doing what you do? Is it an intentional protest against the Orwellian direction of our society, >>
NO
<< or is it a blind interest to continue researching what you want to? >>
Not blind , just the interest
<< A neighbor reported us to the police, after me trying to dissolve a penny >>
It is a F$CKING Felony to dissolve any U.S. currency
\"Prefiero ser yo extranjero en otras patrias, a serlo en la mia\"
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pantone159
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Maya
It is a Felony to dissolve any U.S. currency |
I believe that this is not true. This issue pops up regularly on the rec.collecting.coins newsgroup, and the consensus there is the USA laws are:
It is illegal to FRAUDULENTLY deface *coins*, but dissolving it in HNO3 for fun involves no fraud and hence no lawbreaking. For *notes*, on the other
hand, defacement that makes them unfit to be reissued is a crime, so e.g. turning your note to char with conc H2SO4 is a no-no.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=426715
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oxybate
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Good god, I'm not an attorney/prosecutor. I apologize if I was waxing a bit philosophical with that statement, but I'm not the man. What about my post
is entrapping? But I understand the fear.
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16MillionEyes
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I live in the U.S and I have to say that is indeed a bit complicated to pursue an interest on chemisty. For the most part, as long as you don't have
suspecious things bounded up together that most officers would think unlawful I don't think there's anything "illegal" on it.
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YT2095
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxybate
1. What keeps you doing what you do? Is it an intentional protest against the Orwellian direction of our society, or is it a blind interest to
continue researching what you want to? In readin your posts, some of you are clearly brilliant (my parents say so - see later) and obviously
well-educated.
2. In your travails, what have you learned about the safe purchase of chemicals? Is eBay for the most part safe? Are oxiders, presumptively
considered to be "bomb-making" chemicals? Can one order glassware without bother? Apart from what one would expect to be "watched" (I mean, who really
has a legitimate need for MD-P2P? Anyone buying that should clearly expect a visit from the DEA), what are the informally "watched" chemicals? Will
glacial acetic acid cause Johnny law to jump down my back?
3. For the hardcore, how many chems do you buy a month?
4. What has been the scariest you've ordered?
I My first chiild was just born and I want to teach him the absolute magic of chemistry - there are no more magical parts of a young child's
education.
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1. it`s not to break the law as I`m NOT breaking any laws, I wish to Learn and then eventually Teach what I`ve learned to my Daughter (I`ll get to
that a little latter).
and I also make Money exploiting what I already know and using the equipment that I already have (not ALL in this Lab is Chemical!).
2. I buy what I like, when I like whenever money allows. Again, I don`t break the law nor have intentions of such, I`m perfectly happy doing what I`m
doing.
3. I don`t buy Monthly, I buy Quarterly and top-up existing chems as and when I get low.
4. nothing scary really, although I DID order Red Phos and Iodine crystals once in the same order, I found out several months later that these are
used in drugs making, but since I don`t, it`s just an Order basically.
as for Kids...
well I have a soon to be 2 year old daughter 
eventually we will be sharing this Lab, and she will be shown all the experiments that I was allowed to do and see when I was at school (and more).
this is partly where I Rebel against modern Rules, in schools today you need to fill in 3 pages of Risk assesment just to mix Bicarb and vinigar!
most teachers don`t want to do this so it`s all Books and little to no Practical, well My child will not be educated by them Alone.
and as mentioned above, Chemistry is only a Part of this Lab, theres Bio stuff, Physics stuff, electronics, Weather, astronomy etc....
she will not get JUST the Dumbed down and Watered down version taught today, and one day all this will belong to Her as well.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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oxybate
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YT2095,
Your views sound just like mine. Sadly, I think that as a UK citizen, you are afforded more opportunity to do what you do without inquiry. Its my
feeling (and experience) that in America, all notions of "innocent till proven guilty" have left the legal system, insofar as chemistry is concerned.
There are so many reports of people being pillaried for owning just glassware and ONE suspicious chemical (which to me is definitionally ridiculous as
a chemical can't inherently be suspicious, only its ownership can, begging the question of how ownership of one chemical without any other contextual
reasons can itself be grounds for suspicion) that I just don't know who to believe. How can this be, when I see people on ebay buying chems left and
right? It took my 5 minutes to find several people, through a review of their feedback, who were obviously stockpiling chemicals for an anticipated
MDMA synthesis. One guy has about 20 feedbacks, and 8 of them are related to purchases of "nitromethane", "sassafras root bark powder", "mercuric
chloride" and glassware. I mean, are all these people being busted or is the reality that the cops only go after the most brazen? If this guy can
getaway with open stockpiling of a clandestine lab, should I be afraid to be innocuous chemicals?
I just don't know what to do. I'm starting to think that a decision to engage in the hobby of chemistry requires a decision to put one's freedom on
the line, no matter how remote (or not so remote) that chance may be. Am I right? Has anyone here ever been beaten up by the Feds?
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woelen
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I also cannot speak from an USA point of view, but I am doing in a similar way as YT2095. We have two kids (and we are expecting a third one) and the
two kids we have really like the experimenting. Last year, we even had a chemistry and experimenting birthday party with our oldest daughter (10 years
old), and all kids who were here REALLY loved it, and also their parents reacted in a very positive way. The experiments we did were
1) Making a sodium bicarb/vinegar "volcano" (the kids were allowed to do this themselves)
2) Secret writing with solutions of K4Fe(CN)6 and revealing the text by spraying dilute FeCl3 on it. Again the kids were allowed to do this
themselves.
3) Changes of colors with red cabbage (red->pink->purple->blue->green->golden yellow) at increasing pH. Again the kids were allowed to
do this themselves.
4) Dissolving a 5 eurocents coin in concentrated HNO3 (this is something I did as demo). The kids were impressed by the thick brown clouds and the
disappearance of the coin.
5) Lighting a mix of Ba(NO3)2, S and C by means of a lens and subshine. This also was done as demo.
The kids were talking about this at school and lateron even the teacher asked me about what kind of nice experiments they can do at school. I told her
to make a rocket with sodium bicarb, vinegar and a bottle. Record height was 4 meters  .
So, doing home chemistry can have a real positive influence and all can be received by other people in a positive way. I am open about my hobby and
every now and then I have "open houselab" to a few people (a few weeks ago I had a similar thing to some 17-year old guys from our church, showing
them nice experiments with self-igniting red P in chlorine, explosion of mg quantities of silver acetylide and colored gases like Cl2, Br2 and ONCl).
I am really convinced that if you are open, people are talking about you in a positive way, and you don't have ounces of ready-made explosives or
ready-to-detonate devices around then you don't have to worry. I also keep a very extensive log-book of all experiments. Every few weeks they are
added to my website (as simple texts, the most beautiful ones as pictures) and that also is a strong indication to officials that I don't do any
illegal things like meth-cooking etc. If they were to look here, they would only find inorganic chemicals, no sassafras et al. and no equipment,
needed for making meth, nor equipment for making explosive devices.
In the Netherlands we have a VERY repressive climate against pyrotechnics, so I do not do that beyond mg quantities (it is a pity, but things are as
they are, and I don't want any raids of my house). Recently, multiple members of a pyrotechnics forum in the Netherlands were raided by the police.
This indeed is scary. These people were busted, probably mainly because of what they posted on that forum. So, as long as I don't do pyrotechnics and
no HE's, I feel quite safe.
I also ordered many chemicals through eBay, from UK-suppliers, DE-suppliers and a few Canada and US-suppliers. So, yes, I do openly stockpile on
chems, and extend the diversity of my collection of chems. But I do not order huge quantities. Sometimes 250 grams, most of the time much less. And
why would I want 10 kilo of e.g. KClO3? I have no use for that kind of quantities, because I do experiments on a micro-scale.
[Edited on 25-5-07 by woelen]
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16MillionEyes
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| Quote: | | I told her to make a rocket with sodium bicarb, vinegar and a bottle. Record height was 4 meters . |
Haha. I've thought about it for so long now and I wish I could do it but since I live in the U.S, in a city, I don't even know if it's a good idea to
go out there with little bottle rockets and set them off. I might get charged for who knows what ridiculous charge. It's a pity that even little
things like that can't be done without fear.
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john_do
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chemical acquisition
[Edited on 4-7-2007 by john_do]
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Fleaker
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I think Woelen hit the nail on the head. I feel like I'm almost always complimenting him, but his outlook is exactly correct. The manner in which he
experiments and maintains his lab is correct. Microscale chemistry is often safer, cheaper, and offers the same results. For the most part, I see no
reason to be using large amounts of chemicals for a reaction, unless you are attempting to synthesize another reagent.
Really, it is a sad state of affairs when one must act clandestine because of a rational fear of the government believing one is up to no good. It's
readily evident that it makes the situation worse: government frowns upon amateur chemistry, amateur chemists feel they must make their hobby more
covert, and when/if "busted" the accused chemist's clandestine operation appears very bad. Not being open about what you do lends itself to suspicion.
That is where I think Woelen is right: if you're up to no evil, then have nothing to fear. Sure, they may suspect the worst, but if you keep good
records of what you do, essentially proof that you're responsible and know what you're doing, I truly believe you will prevail. People in my community
know I do a lot of chemistry, mainly in the realm of precious metals refining (which I do to fund the hobby). I also dabble in very basic organic
chemistry, mainly just catalyst work with transesterification of vegetable oils or perhaps syntheses that are technical and provide a challenge. I
guess it's the "if he's telling me all this, then he's got nothing to hide" situation. That is unless the person you talk to is paranoid and thinks
"wow, an elaborate excuse".
I think that penny business is an extreme overreaction. If anything, I would use some of your family's legal ties and take your local PD and your
neighbor to court. It might be understandable if you have a beaker full of pentaerythritol, fuse, wires, pictures of a building, and sinister poetry
etc. Yet dissolving a penny, illegal? I don't even think there's enough of an environmental concern on the release of NOx. I wouldn't worry about
ordering inorganic chemicals off the web. I ordered a good bit of glassware, even a 55L flask (overkill perhaps, however, it was a tenth of retail)
off of ebay and LabX. Maybe I was placed under suspicion, but for every purchase I have a reason for making it and can show that what I did with it
was legitimate.
Just bear in mind, if you have a means to dissolve a metal, it might just be easier to buy the metal and make your own salts. Obviously this is
impractical for certain compounds (i.e. making KNO3 from K and HNO3 ) Your
best reason, if you should ever need to explain a purchase, is that you're educating your children. A powerful defense, and few are the judges that
will interfere with that right unless they suspect you of endangering your children. (So, store all chemicals properly, have a log book, MSDS filed
away, and make provisions for safety.)
In john_do's situation, then perhaps I can see a reason for flying under the radar. That seems excessive and repressive.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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woelen
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If I read about john_do's situation, then I really feel sad. I hardly can believe that a country like Australia (which is said to be a free country
with great opportunities) is so repressive. This situation REALLY must be killing for the scientific education of young people. Experimenting at home
beyond the vinegar/soda experiments (which are fine for younger kids, but soon become dull when they advance a little bit) simply is impossible in
that situation. Creativity and raising interest in science simply are destroyed at their first appearance in young people. It makes me mad and sad
  .
Fortunately, things over here are less suppressive.
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oxybate
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"That seems excessive and repressive."
I really don't think its much different here in the US. I've asked a few lawyer relatives and they are ALL of the stance that there is just too much
to lose to bother with amateur experimentation. And I think they are right. This country is based on a "protestant ethic" that right from the start of
this country has laced social policy and government adminstration with a propensity for witch-hunting. And while the Salem trials have long since
passed, witch-hunting in some form or another hasnt. Right now its the "war on drugs" and "war on terror". The brilliance/tragedy of declaring war on
inanimate objects and concepts is that the focus in inherently amorphous and undefinable - therefore, any action can be taken and any person can be
attacked in its name.
Not to start a political flame here, but if another president with a warmongering, rootin' tootin', redneck, marlboro man shtick is elected (and you
know which party that is!), I think I might have to leave this place. Its only a matter of time till everyone suddenly finds themselves a criminal of
one type or another.
I'm pissed off that I've decided not to engage in any actual chemistry. I'll have to live vicariously through you all, and my son won't be able to
enjoy much more than baking soda and vinegar volcanoes.
[Edited on 10-6-2007 by oxybate]
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obsessed_chemist
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| Quote: | | Not to start a political flame here, but if another president with a warmongering, rootin' tootin', redneck, marlboro man shtick is elected (and you
know which party that is!), I think I might have to leave this place. Its only a matter of time till everyone suddenly finds themselves a criminal of
one type or another. |
Partisan politics are immaterial in this matter. The two major parties just so happen to feed off of the same trough: Korporate Amerika, and it's
lobbyists in Washington DC.
And just where do you intend to go? Most other countries aren't so welcoming toward foreign migrants who intend on settling down - be it americans or
anyone else for that matter. Last I checked, you had best be a millionaire if you plan on being granted citizenship of Australia. But if you were a
millionaire, then you could enjoy all of the luxuries of the ruling class of Amerika, and wouldn't be so subject to worry over your trivial 'hobby'.
You wouldn't have a land crisis to desuade you from your doings, for you would have ample land and facilities to carry out all of your endeavours.
Stop trying to predict/anticipate the fate of amateur chemistry based entirely by the current political climate in the US, you're doing yourself no
favors. Life is short, and if you want to supplement your child's education with some home chemistry, I say go for it! You only live once, and you're
wasting time assuming you'll be hauled off to the Gulag. Just be clever about it. Don't be forthcoming about your hobbies unless necessary in order to
avoid suspicion. Or just take up something else...
[Edited on 6/12/2007 by obsessed_chemist]
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oxybate
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They are, but they aren't OC. While they eat from the same trough, theit choices as to which of the rights they'd like to give up the most differs.
I intend to head to a third world country with which I am extremely familiar. I am a born and bread american but my wife is from a country that is
consistently ranked as one of the most up and coming 3rd world country (the very distinction makes me spit fire, considering the fascist state that
our country cna rightfully be seen as). While we aren't millionaires, I have enough wealthy friends with tens of millions of dollars in the US, who
see the landscape no different than I do. You woefully miscalculate the economic threshold of the ruling elite of the US of A. A millionaire has NO
clout in this country - I can tell you this as my multimillionaire friend watches this e-mail being written.
Sure, we, or he could buy a pasture of land out somewhere obnoxiously remote and engage in actions which, given the remoteness of the location,
wouldn't raise eyebrows. But that is NOT what we are talking about. After all, anyoneo with money could buy himself sufficient isolation. Who wants
isolation? We want allowance in an accepted environment! We don't want to survive by deception or dissapearance. Again, my kids are going to be the
losers.
I truly believe that our struggle is very much a barometer of the political climate that governs us all. Soon, it will not be regional differences
that allow us to trade messages based on areas of recluse. This gestapo SHIT, pardon my english, is going to pervade everywhere.
The one fortune I do have, is that I am very well able to navigate the 3rd world countries - and I can tell you, that I will, at least for the next 10
years, be able to bribe those who need to bribed, to be able to do and carry out what I want.
But I won't be doing that. As I said in another e-mail. I've given up trying. I've chosen to live in the US. Since the balances of freedom versus the
restrictions still weigh in the positive - I will continue to reside here, and as such, understand that this is NOT the place to be an experimental
chemist.
As soon as that balance shifts, I will be in a place that most of you wish you could come to, and maybe you can - I'm always a PM away. That day will
be a sad one, but i Guarantee you - not every country will target its own citizens like an enemy of state. there are still sovereign nations who hold
their people SACRED.
Oxybate Out.
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obsessed_chemist
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^ Seems like a lot of us within our "community" are currently wrapped up in this "doomsday" mentality, predicting that the Dept. of Homeland
Insecurity, or the CPSC is working over-time to outlaw our kind for good. Like the iron-fisted control is at-hand. I'm not sure where I stand on this
personally, but in light of the recent political "climate" the concern is legit. In the end, you gotta just live your life though.
I've been performing experiments in my spare time without bother. I don't brag about my hobby, but I don't worry much about it anymore. I keep a
notebook, and have legitimate intentions so I really don't care.
Well, seems like the developing countries might offer a little more freedom for what you're interested in, plus chemicals will be less restricted.
Since you can navigate well in underdeveloped countries, perhaps you could exploit certain grants to use your knowledge to help the local people
implement water-purification techniques/facilities or waste-recycling.
None of this need necessarily be high-tech either; lots of people are already living in sub-acceptable conditions, and would appreciate any help they
got. Also, this kind of position would justify your use of a "lab". Just a thought.
[Edited on 6/13/2007 by obsessed_chemist]
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quicksilver
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I suggest we drop the politics right now. A quick look at recent history in the US shows BOTH PARTIES to be as throughly engrossed in foolish
Nanny-State mentality. That type of thinking plays to the vote-getting mentality of the party machines. As soon as anyone makes a statement that
describes one party as being in some manner, lacking; a quick look at the other party's track record shows them to be in the same boat.
They BOTH love their country-clubs. They BOTH pose as duck-hunting good guys, & they BOTH are lying when their lips move.
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Phosphor-ing
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AMEN!
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jackson2004
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The best thing to do when buying chemicals from ebay, i know its against the rules but who cares, is to contact the supplier directly via message and
ask for his personal email address then make a transaction outside ebay. that way there is no record of a transaction on ebay, and if paying by paypal
then on records you could be paying for anythin, like filter papers or something. Usually allot of the chemical suppliers on ebay have a number of
chemicals that they cant actually sell you on ebay or haven't got them listed at that time. I once found a supplier on ebay, unfortunately he is gone
now. That was selling on ebay hundreds of chemicals that he purchased from his chemical supply company where he worked part time and as such, he could
pickup, cheaply more or less any item with relative ease to resell to me. He was my cheapest local supplier of Lithium.
[Edited on 24-6-2007 by jackson2004]
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oxybate
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How Prophetic I was:
Just had to dig up this old thread after reading about this. If you will remember, I had decided against experimentation after the above discussion
with you all. For those who thought I was excessively paranoid, I present:
http://io9.com/5119166/teen-with-home-chemistry-lab-arrested...
A Canadian college student majoring in chemistry built himself a home lab - and discovered that trying to do science in your own home quickly leads to
accusations of drug-making and terrorism.
Lewis Casey, an 18-year-old in Saskatchewan, had built a small chemistry lab in his family's garage near the university where he studies. Then two
weeks ago, police arrived at his home with a search warrant and based on a quick survey of his lab determined that it was a meth lab. They pulled
Casey out of the shower to interrogate him, and then arrested him.
A few days later, police admitted that Casey's chemistry lab wasn't a meth lab - but they kept him in jail, claiming that he had some of the materials
necessary to produce explosives. Friends and neighbors wrote dozens of letters to the court, testifying that Casey was innocent and merely a student
who is really enthusiastic about chemistry.
On December 24, Casey was finally released into his parents' custody, pending a trial to determine whether he was building what police called
"improvised explosive devices." Yesterday Casey's lawyer told local journalists:
My client is a very intelligent young man . . . he's very keen in chemistry, a very curious young person and very capable, very knowledgeable in
the area and he was always curious with regard to chemistry, chemical compounds, chemical reactions, that kind of thing. So from my client's point of
view, it's completely innocent insofar as he had no intention of creating any explosives or explosive devices. As people probably know, anything in
your house can constitute or be used in chemical or explosive devices, including sugar and cleaning compounds, Mr. Clean, bleach, detergents, all
those sorts of things.
It's unclear what made police raid Casey's house. They claim that they got a tip from a woman who sold Casey fertilizer and was concerned about it.
Certain kinds of fertilizer are used in the production of crystal meth.
The case is reminiscent of the Steve Kurtz case in 2004. Kurtz is a New York artist who uses biotech equipment in his work, and police arrested him on
suspicion of terrorism after discovering his home chemistry lab.
Casey is now living at home, but he is no longer allowed to engage in chemistry experiments except under supervision in school labs. He is also
required to inform the chemistry department of the charges against him. His trial continues on January 26.
This is a stark example of how scientific curiosity is still regarded with suspicion - even in an era where home labs are becoming more and more
common. Good luck to Casey - let's hope his next home lab is even bigger and cooler than the one he recently lost.
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hissingnoise
International Hazard
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Registered: 26-12-2002
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Mood: Pulverulescent!
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Yes, there's always hope. . .
With the impending (momentous) political "change", perhaps more realistic policies on drugs and terrorism will emerge to everyone's benefit.
Let's again just hope he can. . .
[Edited on 18-1-2009 by hissingnoise]
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 14-1-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by hissingnoise
Yes, there's always hope. . .
With the impending (momentous) political "change", perhaps more realistic policies on drugs and terrorism will emerge to everyone's benefit.
Let's again just hope he can. . .
[Edited on 18-1-2009 by hissingnoise] |
Shit in one hand, put hope in the other... which had will have more in it.
No politician is going to change the policies on drugs and terrorism.
Joe
[Edited on 19-1-2009 by joeflsts]
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hissingnoise
International Hazard
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Come on, joeflsts---a Black Intellectual in the White House---'bound to make a difference!
No one should "misunderestimate" this man. . .
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chloric1
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| Quote: |
Well, seems like the developing countries might offer a little more freedom for what you're interested in, plus chemicals will be less restricted.
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To some extent this is true. I have been staying with family her in Colombia since December 4 and I have seen a great deal of contrast in living
conditions. I am staying in a small
town and it tickles me when I see the tradional farmer coming to the feed store via mule and wooden cart TALKING ON HIS cell phone. The thing
that has caught my interest, is the large gap in qulaity cleaning products. Especially the specializing ones like wheel cleaners, upholstry cleaners
and such. I always have had a passion for soaps, cleansers, and surfactants. And I know, with just a few thousand dollars, I could be up and running
with little problems.
You can find chemicals OTC here but the purity is quite unacceptable unlike the USA. You really need to deal with chemical suppliers or
importers/exporters. But with an intelligent business plan there is no issue. Many Colombians look at investing Americans with favor as they are in
the process of restoring order and security here without removing liberties from ordinary citizens.
Keep in mind there are a few watched chemicals such as: potassium & sodium nitrate, ammonia,potassium permanganate, hydrochloric & sulfuric
acids etc etc given the history of terrorism and drug traffic trade. But then again a reasonable written explanation of what you are using the
listed chemicals for is adequate in obtaining them.
All in all, life is not as easy here as in the USA but it can be far more rewarding and inspiring with some trial and effort.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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EssOilChem
Harmless
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Quote: Originally posted by Maya  |
<< A neighbor reported us to the police, after me trying to dissolve a penny >>
It is a F$CKING Felony to dissolve any U.S. currency |
Is this true? I thought that it was only illegal if it wasn't yours or you intended on committing fraud with it. What about those vending machine
things that flatten out pennies into collectable things?
EDIT: Ooops, sorry for bringing back up such an old thread.
[Edited on 15-5-2012 by EssOilChem]
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