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wickedrabbit
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ultra powerful binary (red paste) or bogus?
This looks pretty bogus but I just wanted to get your opinions.
Super Binary?
I wish they would have shown the test without the pen (which could be loaded with a lot more energetic material).
Peace,
John
[Edited on 17-11-2006 by wickedrabbit]
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Fulmen
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Complete and utter bullshit IMHO, not even HMX would be THAT powerful.
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ElementalWatson
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yea....
Well I'd say kinepak.
http://oditechnologies.com/products/binary_explosives.html
Velocity, color, description all exact...except I really don't think kinepak is flame sensitive nor anywhere near that powerful.
This stuff isn't exactly new or revolutionary either. I believe it's ANNM with a few extra sensitizers thrown in. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Also while watching the video why are there orange sparks shot out the backside of the melon? I'd say there was a little something extra in that pen.
Thoughts?
\"Apparently this is the reward I get for years of screwing with super-science. In short, I pissed in God\'s eye - and He blinked.\"
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Bromine
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I think too, that it was something in the pen.
[Edited on 17-11-2006 by Bromine]
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woelen
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What is the amount of energy, which can be released by the most energetic compounds, expressed in kjoules per gram? Look them up on Internet and
estimate the amount of weight of that small amount and estimate how much energy would be released at most. If you do that, then you see it is utter
nonsense. Their only goal is to spread fear.
Only nuclear reactions can provide such quantities of energy per unit of mass.
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Nerro
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I believe the melon just gets tipped off the pole, it seems to just be lying there.
#261501 +(11351)- [X]
the \"bishop\" came to our church today
he was a fucken impostor
never once moved diagonally
courtesy of bash
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Jdurg
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Wow. What complete and utter bullshit. It's amazing how stupid high schoolers think the world is. Gee, that guy had a camoflauge outfit on. He
must be a millitary general. In addition, if this was real don't you think the national news agencies would have already had a report on this? Oh
wait, that's right. It's some conspiracy to keep this information from the public. It's really sad how lazy and useless some people on this earth
are. Someone should show them what a REAL explosive is. 
\"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists of the unmistakable scent of broccoli, and usually
requires wiping afterwards.\"
http://maddox.xmission.com. |
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DeAdFX
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Hmm... As long as you are proffesional looking it isn't too difficult to puff smoke up people's asses unless of course your trying to puff smoke up
another proffesionals ass...
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Mr. Wizard
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I agree the clip looked bogus. They go into all kinds of detail on how little of the material is on the fuse, and then you have a guy lighting the
fuse and then a very close-up of an 'explosion' that looked more like a bullet hitting a melon. It was not a convincing clip. We've all seen enough
wide angle explosions on the internet to judge a real one. It will fool most non scientists. The stuff looked like flour mixed with red inkjet
refill ink. What kind of black tape requires removing a backing? Has anyone ever seen any detasheet in black? Would you use your fingers to put
tape on a primary explosive? 
I call B.S.
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wickedrabbit
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So far all of your opinions are very reasonable to me.
Now that Mr. Wizard mentioned the idea of it being shot got me interesting in the posters alias. I looked at the other videos by "shootingeggs"…
Here's the link for simplicity:
shootingeggs other video postings on that site.
It's interesting though that this guy has made nearly $1500 bucks on a video posted just two weeks ago by posting crap.
Thanks for the feedback!
John
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Waffles
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Was this video recently posted? New James Bond movie anyone? 
\"…\'tis man\'s perdition to be safe, when for the truth he ought to die.\"
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Fulmen
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Mr. WizardWhat kind of black tape requires removing a backing? |
It was self-vulcanizing tape, looks just like the one I use sometimes. Nothing special about it.
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The_Davster
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Bull.
The sparks were likely the remainder fuse shooting away. Was there a real explosive in the pen, such a thing would not happen, it would be
extinguished. It was either shot or there was something electrically tirggered inside the melon. Something which may be a wire can be seen dangling
right after the 'explosion'.
Also, they give VoDs to the tenth of a metre per second. That is never done, too much error, especially with such a method of prep.
It is done on a fence...
Watch this make the real TV news because some uneducated reporter sees this video and writes a story. Then watch fearmongering follow its well
trodden path.
[Edited on 17-11-2006 by The_Davster]
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Jdurg
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To me, the explosive had the same consistency as mixing all-purpose flour with elmer's white glue which had red food coloring mixed in it. EXACT same
consistency.
\"A real fart is beefy, has a density greater than or equal to the air surrounding it, consists of the unmistakable scent of broccoli, and usually
requires wiping afterwards.\"
http://maddox.xmission.com. |
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Mr. Wizard
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I had never seen the self vulcanizing tape with a peel away layer. The stuff I have is military surplus, comes in a can, but doesn't have a peel away
layer on the back, just a separating plastic layer. You have to stretch it to activate it. Thanks for the info. I was half wondering if they had used
a little detasheet on it, but I guess not.
[Edited on 18-11-2006 by Mr. Wizard]
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Fulmen
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C'mon, these morons having access to detasheet? Yea right!
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froot
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The amount of smoke suggests it was beefed up. In the slow motion, look frame by frame. On the earliest frame of it exploding, follow the trajectory
lines of the debris back to where they coincide, right in the middle of the watermelon.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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nitro-genes
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Red mercury maybe?
Didn't now it was available yet, where can I order? Flashpowder is getting boring...
[Edited on 18-11-2006 by nitro-genes]
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Waffles
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nitro-genes
Red mercury maybe?
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nitro-genes
Red mercury maybe?
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nitro-genes
Red mercury maybe?
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:-D
\"…\'tis man\'s perdition to be safe, when for the truth he ought to die.\"
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Rosco Bodine
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opinions ?
bogus .....
absolutely positively bogus .
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franklyn
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I'm by no means an expert but I know melons are fragile and it doesn't take
much hydrodynamic shock to burst one. A standard 5.56 mm round moving
something over twice the speed of sound will make fruit salad of any melon.
Secondly, Xenon Trioxide compositions are quite powerful out of proprtion to
anything else and don't need "sensitizing". The application of rubber tape can
serve to fuel the oxygen effectively increasing the blast. Note that
precisely this composition is used as rocket propellant because the regulation
of liquid oxygen allows the rocket engine to be throttled.
Third, confinement of the explosive inside the pen stem serves as a tamp
and allows the force to act more percussively against the melon, enough I
believe to achieve rupture.
Consider this, taking an amount of chlorate the size of a match head and
blending with vaseline. It would need perhaps an exploding bridge wire to
initiate properly ( high order ) but if it is similarly confined , this would be
enough to move a melon off a post.
I have misgivings about the presentation because it suggests the melon was
quote, "vaporized", clearly not possible. That it was pushed off the post and
in more than one piece I see no reason to doubt.
From the same site see this other video here _
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/258841/mythbusters_safe_cracki...
It plays a little long but it's worth the wait. Observe how much damage
is done to a massive steel safe by confined explosion of a very minimal
explosive charge.
( I guess 5 or 6 thousand times the amount in the pen versus melon video )
See the *.jpg below here
_________________________________
iamthewaffler _ mentions bond. As I recall in "Moonraker" bond uses a miniature
detonation cord hidden inside his watch to break a lock. Actually something
like this has been tried, experimentally.
The_Davster _ said " they give VoDs to the tenth of a metre per second "
Yes that I find particularly amusing, here's why
ElementalWatson _ gave this link _
http://oditechnologies.com/products/binary_explosives.html
The following text quoted from that page appears verbatim in the video
"Detonation velocities vary between 4297.6 m/s (14,100 fps) and 6553.2 m/s (21,500 fps)
depending upon product configuration" . . . coincidence ?
.
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hinz
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It's a big difference whether the object you blow up is filled with an (nearly) incompressable liquid like water or if it's filled with air. When
filled with air, the shock wafe will compress the air and won't hit the walls as strong as in water, where the pressure can't be 'absorbed' by
compression of the medium. In water the volume will increase by the explosion and the extra volume can't go nowhere, so it blows out the safe door.
without water the safe wouldn't have broken up, I think
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franklyn
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After 18 or so posts all saying yeah me too, I had the feeling this needs some
balance and is in need of some critical analysis and assessment beyond
immediate "gut" impressions, so I will play the devils advocate so to speak.
It seems to me that many of the practitioners of the black art frequenting this
forum do not entirely appreciate the difference between torching a dab of stuff
to see it go poof, and the same quantity properly detonated in a manner that
effectively couples the explosions force so that it can do mechanical work.
| Quote: | Originally posted by woelen
What is the amount of energy, which can be released by the most energetic
compounds, expressed in kilojoules per gram? Look them up on Internet and
estimate the amount of weight of that small amount and estimate how much
energy would be released at most. |
An execllent starting premise, lets begin here. I already outlined above a simple
chlorate composition but I will now delve in and be more technical.
For comparison note the following, Trinitrotoluene is rated at something over
900 Kilogram calories per kilogram but is oxygen deficient. RDX is better at
something over 1300 Kg cal / kg but it too is oxygen deficient. If one goes to
the end of the scale of what is reasonably available, an explosive of Ammonium
Nitrate and 40 percent of Aluminum, produces somewhat over 2300 kg cal.
A binary formulation generally implies that it would be oxygen balanced as
for example a sprengel explosive. So considering the aforementioned lets
assume 1500 kg cal / kg. Now we should consider the quantity used which is
the point of much contention. Your estimate may perhaps differ from mine
and thats fine I have no quarrel with that, but an assumption is needed to
work with. The quantity depicted seems to me to be perhaps 30 milligrams
or so.
So now multiplying 1500 kg cal / kg, by the amount, .000030 kg gives you
.045 kg cal, converting this to Joules we obtain 188.4 . This is N O T a
trivial amount. Using industry standard values for available manufactured
capacitors this is just over the equivalent of a 200 microfarad capacitor
charged to 600 volts !
Actually several photoflash capacitors in parallel may be needed as this is
a very extreme value to find in a single piece.
So now try this, obtain a small length of enameled copper magnet wire of
about 30 AWG ( American wire gauge ) if you peel an A.C. line cord and
remove one of its strands then paint it with nail polish you'll have something
comparable. Now take a half inch ( 12 mm ) segment of a pen stem and
thread the wire through it. Epoxy one end closed with the wire protruding.
With an eyedropper fill this capsule with water and epoxy this other open
end closed leaving the wire from this end protruding also.
You now have an item which looks like an electronic component, a short
water filled plastic cylinder with a wire from each end.
Now for the fun part you may connect this with a short length of coaxial
television cable ( to reduce the inductive reactance ) to your 200 microfarad
600 volt charged capacitor, and fire away. You may supply a sacrificial
melon against which this will be taped. You should be wearing a visor
over your face and be a few meters away. Post a picture if you can.
.
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Boomer
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I dont buy it. Firstly, of those 180 Joules only one third can be used for mechanical work, and 5/6th of that goes in the other five directions.
Leaves 10 Joules. Even less since kinepack is below 1.5 kcal/g. This *might* roll it off the post if it has an unstable position, and do some damage
to the side. Not more.
Secondly, the exact numbers show they *meant* kinepack. Now that's not flame sensitive is it?
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Ozone
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Completely irresponsible (or greedy) propoganda!
The mass balence does not work; at best, it nudged the thing off of the pole. It ~might~ have done more if it was placed inside of the unsuspecting
melon...
Unfortunately, this is really all the media would need to incite unwarrented panic in the general public (who, upon watching this, I think *would*
believe it).
This is terrible PR for flying (which already is quite terrible, especially the food) and for scientists (who already seem to scare the public).
Irresponsible...I hope it never gets any farther than it has.
O3
[Edited on 22-11-2006 by Ozone]
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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