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Punk
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Id like to make a HUGE smoke cloud
with household chemicals. The sugar/salt and matchheads mixture in the ACB did not work out so well any suggestions?
Something simple and safe is what im looking for.
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enhzflep
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Not too sure what you mean by safe. I.e - in terms of the reaction, or the smoke produced.
Though, it's probably not terribly important, as this method is not particularly nice in either sense.
As kids, we played around with the ubiquitous chlorine/brake-fluid bombs. This went on for months and months. Starting out with 50gm piles on bricks.
Moving on to 100gms in plastic pop bottles, before the big finale.
Forgive me here, my recollection is somewhat hazy. On the night in question we poured around 500ml (wt unknown) of granular pool chlorine into a 900ml
glass bottle. We then proceeded to pour in brake-fluid until it was level with the top of the chlorine granules. Yeah, I know - bloody stupid, but in
our 'infinite wisdom' we had concluded that if the lid were to be left off the bottle, that the pressure build up would not be too great and that we
could expect a 4-6ft high flame from the top of the bottle.
Well, needless to say this was not to be the case. The six of us present all witnessed a blue flash that started in the middle of the mixture and
propogated radially, somewhat like a dinner plate in shape. After this, 2 simultaneous 'spikes' were observed to travel both up and downwards from
this point to the top and bottom of the mixture. (all of this happened in about 1/10 of a second)
At around about this point we all realised that we were pretty much screwed, and that now would be a good time to turn around. Halfway through the
act of turning around a large sound that is best descibed as a 'boof' was heard and we were all hit in the back by flying pieces of the bottle.
Wanting to avoid the smoke, we ran out the front and observed the cloud of white smoke to be covering the 5 bedroom, 2 storey house that I resided in
at the time. All of the neighborhood dogs were barking, as were all of the porch lights turned on. oops! When we turned back to look at what we'd
done, there was no sight of the house. From 15m away the entire house was covered by this thick white smoke. 
After around 1/2 an hour the smoke (and smell) had subsided sufficiently to permit our re-entry. Apart from the window that was broken and the plants
that died from having the mixture splattered all over them, everthing was fine.
Perhaps this would be better placed in the "Most ignorant thing you've done while conducting an experiment thread", however - as long as glass were
not used, the activity conducted in a non-urban environment and most importantly, that the smoke were not to be used for hiding living
organisms/creatures. If these precautions were followed, then and only then could this be considered safe.
Total estimated smoke output > 1000 cubic meters.
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woelen
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Punk, please do not think of repeating that experiment with pool chlorine granules. That smoke is terribly poisonous and it is carcinogenic. You don't
want to pay the price for this years after, or have others (people, or animals) pay the price for such a stupid k3wlish experiment.
A much safer and less toxic smoke can be made by using ammonium chloride. Take sparklers and put these under a thin layer of ammonium chloride, only
leave the tip uncovered. Light them at the tip. This gives an incredibly dense, non-toxic and only marginally irritating smoke. Ammonium chloride is
non-toxic, in fact, it even is used in sweets.
[Edited on 17-7-06 by woelen]
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evil_lurker
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Yeah swim can testify to the fact that TCCA makes some damn good smoke.
Just throw a couple 8oz pucks in some toluene and heat...
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ethan_c
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Household materials, you say?
1.) Collect dry wood from outside. Pile it up, smallest pieces on the bottom. Leave air space.
2.) Take matches. Light the bottom of the pile.
3.) Collect green wood, leaves, pine needles, etc from outside and put on sufficiently large fire. Observe result.
Important note: This experiment should not be performed inside, or on anything but dry dirt, stone, or pavement.
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woelen
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Evil_lurker, I find the idea of mixing TCCA with an organic compound as a smoke source a VERY bad one. This is asking for serious trouble and also
produces really toxic smoke.
This kind of crap experiments should not be performed in any inhabited area. If enough of that kind of experiments is performed, then at some time
TCCA will also be banned as an OTC chemical, due to misuse. Please do not spoonfeed the k3wls with this kind of info  .
We have to be careful with the chems which still are OTC. TCCA is a very interesting oxidizer and it is one of the only few real good oxidizers which
is left available for the general public as a nice OTC chemical. That should remain so!
[Edited on 17-7-06 by woelen]
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YT2095
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try heating up ping-pong balls in a metal tin as if you were trying to Melt them 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Endo
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Smoke
I have done smoke using sugar/KNO3 in a 50/50 mix. Heat them together carefully with a lot of stirring and the mix will melt together, while it is
still warm it can be pressed/moulded into containers or blobs and fuses inserted.
If this doesn't give you a dense enough smoke you can always add up to 5% TiO2 or ZnO to the mix to get a heavier denser white smoke.
Endo
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Mr. Wizard
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This isn't as K3wl as a big smoke bomb, but it works better. Buy a propane powered insect fogger, such as this one:
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1934
They are actually very simple propane burners that have a stainless steel spiral tube, with a small hole in the end, running through it's hot zone. A
hand powered trigger pump pushes a small amount of mineral oil through the tube with each pull. The oil is vaporized by the hot coil and comes jetting
out as a huge white cloud of smoke. You can obscure a whole backyard with two or three pumps of the handle. If you don't want to spend that kind of
money, learn how to make one, it will teach you more about science and technology than all the store bought stuff. You could use charcoal and a small
metal can for the heat source. A small plastic squirt bottle will provide the pump. Another VERY effective method is to make yourself a pulse jet
engine and feed light oil into the exhaust. There are commercial foggers that do just that. Use non toxic oils.
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neutrino
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I'm curious about this brake fluid smoke. What exactly in it is carcinogenic? Is it the vaporized fluid itself, some chlorinated byproduct,
aerosolized hypochlorite, or some really exotic byproduct of the reaction?
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woelen
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I have discussed this once before and what happens is that all kinds of quite heavy chlorinated hydrocarbons are formed. The oil is not totally broken
down, but a mist/smoke of medium size chlorinated compounds are formed, which are VERY nasty. These are known to be highly likely to be carcinogens
(think of it as old chlorinated oils, used in certain electronic components, these are not allowed anymore at the moment).
For this reason I am so against the TCCA/oil mix or hypochlorite/oil mix. I have no problem with people making some fun at times (I also once was 16
 ), but the chlorinated oil mist has nothing to do with fun anymore. So, I would
say, if you really want a smoke bomb, try some of the other suggestions, there are quite a few at the moment already, and none of these is really
nasty if you accidently happen to inhale some smoke.
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Punk
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Well after reading the above posts I think woelen and endo posted what I was looking for. Do to the shitty detail of the anarcy cookbook I used
sodium chloride for potassium nitrate and the matcheads probly wouldnt work like sparklers would. The salt/sugar mixture I made did make a dense white
smoke but the matcheads didnt keep it going consistintly.
So how can I obtain potassium nitrate over the counter as I would also like to also make my own black powder and fuses for some loud noisemakers.
So I was thinking of pouring this kn03/sugar melt into a 2 liter pop bottle filled with sparklers packed together standing verticly with the center
one sticking higher to light.
What if I mixed black powder in with it?
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evil_lurker
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woelen
Please do not spoonfeed the k3wls with this kind of info .
[Edited on 17-7-06 by woelen] |
Aw c'mon...
What's wrong with speeding up the process of natural selection? 
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neutrino
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My advice to the punk: stop reading the crapbook and go to www.roguesci.org and see what real pyrotechnics are. Then come back and post when you have some idea of what you're doing.
Failing that, please decrease the world's kewl population by one. The people at roguesci and here will be more than glad to tell you how. 
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jimmyboy
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another good way is newspapers soaked in ammonium nitrate or potassium chlorate and then dried -- it will burn fast and puts out alot of smoke - i
think it may be the ink that makes it so heavy ..
in small amounts this should be relatively safe...
im also glad someone spoke up on this thread - this thread is worth something if it results in him not getting hurt -- i dont wanna see sciencemadness
on the 5 o'clock news because some kid got blown up making "smoke bombs"
[Edited on 17-7-2006 by jimmyboy]
[Edited on 17-7-2006 by jimmyboy]
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Maja
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"ammonium nitrate/potassium chlorate" means ammonium nitrate + potassium chlorate
if yes Ammonium chlorate is highly unstabe ....
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hodges
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Simply burn some red phosphorous, as you see me doing in this picture . Yes, this
is red phosphorous burning, and I took the picture.
4P + 5O2 ---> 2P2O5
The P2O5 forms a dense cloud of phosphoric acid by taking moisture from the air.
Hodges
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Punk
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sure
Ill just hop over to the local convience store and pick up a few kilos of red phosphorus.
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sparkgap
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Be sure to tell us where that convenience store is if you succeed in getting that red P.
And yes, Punk, the ACB is no good.
sparky (~_~)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Twospoons
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I've always made smoke flares for the kids simply with KNO3 and sugar, with about 10% sulphur as well. If you can't get potassium nitrate, try
calcium nitrate - its still sold as fertilizer in farm stores. The only difference will be the bright orange flame, due to the calcium.
As a side benefit, nitrate/sugar smoke actually smells rather good - like caramel (not surprising, really).
Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
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woelen
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I'm afraid it won't work with the calcium nitrate. Clacium nitrate is an hydrated nitrate (IIRC a 6-hydrate). That really will spoil the reaction. It
will give off too much water on heating.
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jimmyboy
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red p would be the best by far -- now only if i had a red phosphorus tree out back...
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evil_lurker
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jimmyboy
red p would be the best by far -- now only if i had a red phosphorus tree out back... |
If I had an RP tree and you had a feather up your ass, we'd both be tickled...
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hodges
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I took that picture with a Polaroid camera back in 1981. I just scanned it in recently. I got the red phosphorous from my high school chemistry
teacher. I guess times have changed a bit since then in the US. I do not presently have any phosphorous.
Hodges
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Punk
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Well
Anyone know the composition of the store bought or even government smoke bombs?
Ive tried the rolled up newspaper saturated with sodium hypochlorite but the results were unsatisfactry. Ill try saturating with the sugar/salt and
see how that burns.
Being that red phosphorus is used as a flame retardent I cant see how it would be easy to ignite
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