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pdb
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Quote: Originally posted by Axt  | | Good god pdb, it's been just shy of 20 years it's good to see you made it to 75 posts haha. |
It's nice to see you're still alive and still tuned in to our favorite topic !
| Quote: Originally posted by Axt | I'm not sure what your photo is showing btw, it looks like an orange blob taped to the middle of some angle iron. I've never confined
dinitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate but assumed it would DDT given any excuse with confinement.
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I'll try to be more explicit. It's a pyrotechnic train consisting of a segment of 2,4-dinitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate, followed by a segment of
3-nitrobenzenediazonium, and then another segment of 2,4-dinitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate. The result shows that the detonation of the
3-nitrobenzenediazonium (which bent and pierced the angle iron) did not cause the 2,4-dinitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate to achieve DDT. I had
conducted other tests at the time and failed to achieve DDT.
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Etanol
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How about Copper(II) Perchlorate Complex with Aminoguanidine?
According to the "Synthesis, Structural and Energetic properties of Copper(II) Perchlorate Complex with Aminoguanidine", its thermal behavior is not
much lower than that of NAP: 215°C vs 230°C.
However, I am afraid that the combination of copper and hydrazin bond will make the product unstable and dangerous.
Also, I found a youtube video with this substance. However, the author prepared not a pure substance that does not work.
I want to make a pure product without impurities of sulfate or acetate.
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pdb
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Isn't example 2.4 of patent EP2450330A2 ?
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Axt
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Yes, although no reference gives its extraction, whether it readily precipitates or not.
Generally if the complex is very water soluble you can use the metal sulphate and sodium salt oxidiser then run an ethanol extraction. Dissolve
everything in a small amount of water, add ethanol as sodium sulphate is poorly soluble in ethanol/water it precipitates, heat to 40 degrees or so and
filter while hot, cool solution down to -5 in freezer and filter the complex.
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Etanol
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Thank you. But apparently this is Fake. Copper aminoguanidine perchlorate cannot exist.
When trying to synthesize, aminoguanin perchlorate slowly oxidizes copper perchlorate in a Cu2O in an hot acidic environment and instantly does this
in a slightly alkaline environment.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Copper perchloride ? Such errors do not writte anyone from this forum. Text looks a like bullshit from AI.....
Development of primarily - secondary substances: CHP (2015) neutral CHP and Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024) Diper
60 (2025)
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Axt
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You literally just linked to another prep of it, are you saying they are both lying and are both "fake".
The other is a google image translate of the patent.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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The time has come when you can't believe everything you see with your own eyes. Another error....hemesulfate ....Yes, aminoguanidine hemisulfate
exist: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Aminoguanidine-hem...
Development of primarily - secondary substances: CHP (2015) neutral CHP and Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024) Diper
60 (2025)
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Axt
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| Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456 | Anyone had experience with Silver 5-ATz complexes such as [(2Ag)5-ATz] NO3 or ClO4?
My product crashed out of the sol immediately on addition of AgNO3 to the 5-ATz/HNO3 mix as an off-white precipitate that started to yellow to a
pastel yellow on air drying on a filter. |
In referernce to http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=689047&...
Dettoo, did you change anything from the literature procedure to make this work? I gave it a go and achieved as much as you did in this post, it just
dumps the silver aminotetrazolate out as soon as the silver nitrate solution is added. Nothing like as described in the article.
The article sems to be wrong, it uses equal molar quantities of silver nitrate and aminotetrazole thus impossible to achieve their stated 80% yield of
Ag2(CH2N5)NO3.
I just went and checked the original 1972 patent (US3663553) for the perchlorate and they are using the same nonsensical molar ratio as well. Make it
make sense.
[Edited on 14-12-2024 by Axt]
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dettoo456
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I have not revisited this complex any time recently, as the product was pretty lackluster IMO (performs on the level of MTX-1). Klapotke has a stellar
reputation regarding EM synthesis methods as well, so I don’t know why this particular preparatory method from him seems so finicky. I’m assuming
the amphoteric nature of the 5-substituted tetrazoles is what is causing these inconsistencies. pH control is likely more important in this case than
I guessed.
On page 3 of the article you linked, the authors notice that the complexes are “ are extremely insoluble in every common solvent, and only dissolve
in concentrated acid solutions (e.g., hydrochloric, nitric, or perchloric acid) to form the corresponding 5- amino-1H-tetrazolium salt (chloride,
nitrate, or perchlo- rate) in which the silver cations are no longer coordinating to the tetrazole ring”.
If I get time I can try again, though I’d currently like to mess with DPPE-1 & its Ag analogues. I’ll need to make some more HNO3 before I
prep the Ag 5-ATz complex again :|
[Edited on 14-12-2024 by dettoo456]
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Axt
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As I posted that it was stirring so I just threw an extra molar equivalent of silver nitrate into it. It actually did get near 100% yield, 3.6g by
using 0.02mol AgNO3 and 0.01mol 5-ATZ but it's no more energetic, just sputters with an energetic puff now and then. I can't say this was comparative
to MTX-1 which will at least POP. I'll just throw this one in the bin of failures.
I really wanted a nitrate to work, I tried "DAN-2" the nitrate perovskite but I wouldn't even class it as an energetic, barely burns. DAP-2, DAP-4 and
DPPE all follow their prep details well though, instantly dropping out of solution as small cubes. I cannot quantify their sensitivity but it's much
more than the articles state.
I'm looking at copper aminotriazole chlorate with mild interest. Only if its soluble in ethanol enough to extract it from the sulfate as I'm not using
barium chlorate.
[Edited on 14-12-2024 by Axt]
Attachment: copper aminotriazole chlorate.pdf (725kB)
This file has been downloaded 43 times
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dettoo456
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The DPPE-1 I trust to at least perform, as another member here shared some of his experience in preparing it along with showing properties. I made
what I thought to be the K-DABCO-ClO4 too, though that burned about as well as black powder (like you mention with the DAN-2). I have around 500g of
DABCO though, so those perovskites are more enticing at the moment than tetrazole complexes.
I may try a CuAG-IO4 complex now that I think about it, may be an interesting alternative to NAP if it hasn’t already been tried and found to be
shit.
[Edited on 14-12-2024 by dettoo456]
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Axt
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| Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456 | The DPPE-1 I trust to at least perform, as another member here shared some of his experience in preparing it along with showing properties. I made
what I thought to be the K-DABCO-ClO4 too, though that burned about as well as black powder (like you mention with the DAN-2). I have around 500g of
DABCO though, so those perovskites are more enticing at the moment than tetrazole complexes.
I may try a CuAG-IO4 complex now that I think about it, may be an interesting alternative to NAP if it hasn’t already been tried and found to be
shit.
[Edited on 14-12-2024 by dettoo456] |
I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think copper will form complexes with periodate. I have tried it with ethylenediamine and ammonia and
only received what I took for copper periodate (I'm sure that can be easily tested, but I haven't). Light green powder that when ignited It would
smoulder through the mass releasing a bit of iodine smoke.
The potassium DABCO perchlorate and its ammonia analogue burn more like some type of rocket fuel. Potassium DABCO nitrate I would have loved to be a
blackpowder like propellant, but as best I can determine just turns black and splutters a bit.
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MineMan
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| Quote: Originally posted by Axt |
You literally just linked to another prep of it, are you saying they are both lying and are both "fake".
The other is a google image translate of the patent. |
There is a thread on this, where the user compares it to NAP.
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MineMan
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| Quote: Originally posted by Axt |
You literally just linked to another prep of it, are you saying they are both lying and are both "fake".
The other is a google image translate of the patent. |
There is a thread on this, where the user compares it to NAP.
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Microtek
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I have been evaluating ZnCP as a primary for indoor testing due to concerns over the potential production of nickel carbonyl gas when using nickel
based primaries such as NAP, NHN or NiCP (NAP is IMO still the state of the art primary where good ventilation is possible, or outdoors).
I have prepared ZnCP in a number of different ways, but while the substance seems to be ZnCP, I'm not impressed with its power. For this reason I
wanted to ask here, if anyone has prepared ZnCP and has some experience with it.
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Axt
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I've no answer Microtek but are you making the carbohydrazide yourself? The only accessible literature route I see is cyanuric acid + hydrazine
hydrate (40% to 100% concentration), the prep seems quite trivial. US3258485.
The only zinc salt I can remember making was Bis(ethylenediamine)zinc(II) Bromate (possibly tris) which would flash on ignition, with notably less
vehemence than the copper analogue which would go off with a bang. The zinc complex that did catch my attention was the tetrakis(DMSO)zinc(II)
perchlorate complex, anhydrous and melts at about 70 degrees. No explosive properties mentioned although the silver analogue is said to be the most
violent and dangerously explosive.
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Microtek
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I'm using commercial carbohydrazide, and it has worked as expected in other syntheses such as NiCP (which is almost as good as NAP) or CoCP. The
reason I was going for ZnCP apart from the low toxicity is that reportedly, the chinese have begun using this material in their caps. One explanation
could be that they use a large amount of primary, maybe 200-300 mg in a cap. Another could be that they use it in conjunction with something else,
much like the common LA/LS mix.
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Axt
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This report seems to affirm your experience. Co and Ni Fired, Zn did not. Although it doesn't clearly state by which manner it failed, it reads as if
it didn't ignite.
Attachment: Ni Co Zn carbohydrazide complexes.pdf (410kB)
This file has been downloaded 15 times
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