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Author: Subject: M8 war agent detection paper
MrFormula
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[*] posted on 18-8-2024 at 13:04
M8 war agent detection paper


I recently learned about the M8 chemical detection paper. It is used to detect type g and v nerve gas and type h blister gases. It uses three different dyes for each of the gas types that turns a given color on exposure. The problem is that I cannot find what the dyes are. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 18-8-2024 at 14:49


I am curious. Why would you need or even want to know this?
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MrFormula
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[*] posted on 18-8-2024 at 15:26


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I am curious. Why would you need or even want to know this?
I do not need to know this I just find it curious that there is no information that I can find on what makes it change color. I recently learned about cbrn (chemical biological radiological and nuclear contamination) and came across the M8(C8) paper and just want to know how it work.
Edit: for context my brother and I are really interested in military history and like collecting old gear. This is just one of the things I found.

[Edited on 8-18-24 by MrFormula]
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[*] posted on 18-8-2024 at 18:58


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I am curious. Why would you need or even want to know this?


I am surprised by j_sum1 comment. Almost everything in the forum is motivated by curiosity even his own question.

I guess, one man's curiosity is another man's waste of time. Similar to the comments some people make about some art installation such a blank canvas or a. steam locomotive modelled in bricks in a field.

My own curiosity dumbfounds my family and friends LOL It's usually put down to peculiar or craziness LOL They still ask me to fix things for them.




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j_sum1
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[*] posted on 18-8-2024 at 20:20


Hats off to a healthy curiosity. My comment was not intended to be disparaging. Apologies if it came across this way.
It just struck me as something extremely niche with no practical applications for the amateur. Nerve agents are already waay out there. And a (probably proprietary) qualitative test for such seemed to me to be beyond that.
Of course, if you are into military history, that contextualises it.

J.
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MrFormula
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[*] posted on 19-8-2024 at 07:20


No worries. I realize that this is a bit odd but hey, I like to learn how things work.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2024 at 10:33


It is good to find a fellow war buff around here.

Anyway. You may want to take a look at patent US8404490B1, "Detecting nerve agents and determining the types thereof". They wrote that "M8 paper uses simple acid-base principles for discrimination that are prone to false positive reactions from environmental interferents." That is quite interesting because the nerve agents either react with the dye and the color changes or they react with another reagent present in the paper (acid or basic hydrolysis, I guess) and then the product reacts with the dye.

They also mentioned US army Supply Bulletin SB 3-6665-2, which I haven't found. If you manage to find it, please leave a link.

Attachment: US8404490.pdf (1.5MB)
This file has been downloaded 59 times




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[*] posted on 19-8-2024 at 12:10


That supply bulletin can be:
1. On dtic.mil and the Internet Archive (knowing the AD number helps)
2. On bulletpicker.com
3. In the secret repository requiring seven passwords and DNA validation to access (if one password is wrong, you are injected with FOXDIE). Together with the "SPIA/M2 Propellants Manual" and other invaluable documents that militarists are hiding from humanity. End of rant.




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bnull
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[*] posted on 19-8-2024 at 15:10


The first place I had looked was the Army Publishing Directorate, which has 234 Supply Bulletins but not the SB 3-6665-2. The Defense Technical Information Center gave the same result. bulletpicker.com has many Technical Bulletins and zero Supply Bulletins (I'll bookmark this site for later; thanks).

FOXDIE has been superseded, by the way. Nowadays they're using Nabazov.




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MrFormula
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[*] posted on 20-8-2024 at 12:28


Quote: Originally posted by bnull  
You may want to take a look at patent US8404490B1, "Detecting nerve agents and determining the types thereof".

They also mentioned US army Supply Bulletin SB 3-6665-2, which I haven't found. If you manage to find it, please leave a link.

I found that patent and a few related ones in my search. I was not able to find SB 3-6665-2 but I will continue to look. I also posted on the us militaria forum and was sent a link to the safety data sheet of the M8 paper. This might be out of date though. I can only find information on one of the chemicals and none of the rest and I feel like that's how it is with a lot of old organic dyes. https://www.qckslvr.com/Images/quicksilveranalytics/sds/_I__...
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