chornedsnorkack
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Ferrates vs. perxenates
Both ferrates and perxenates are renowned as simple salts which are reasonably stable in alkaline aqueous solutions, but rapidly oxidize water in weak
acid already.
Ferrates reduce to Fe(OH)3, perxenates to XeO3.
Ferrates in alkaline condition are stable over +400 C and can be made in liquid saltpetre (which is how they were discovered), as well as, in aqueous
alkali, by hypochlorite and hypobromite. Perxenates are formed in aqueous alkali by dismutation of XeO3.
Which of them is the stronger oxidant? At near neutral pH, does perxenate oxidize Fe(OH)3 to ferrate, or vice versa?
Also, while perxenic acid decomposes rapidly in dilute acid solutions, in concentrated acid it is easy to separate XeO4. Whereas I have not
heard of successful production of H2FeO4 or FeO3. What are the reaction conditions needed for successful production
of XeO4 rather than XeO3 and O2?
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PirateDocBrown
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LOL, if you need homework help, just say so.
Phlogiston manufacturer/supplier.
For all your phlogiston needs.
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ave369
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I don't think a home chemist can seriously answer a question about xenon compounds. Xenon chemistry is locked behind a fluorine barrier. You cannot
make xenon compounds if you don't have free fluorine. No one has that at home, and no one should.
Smells like ammonia....
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clearly_not_atara
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_electrode_potential_(data_page)
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BromicAcid
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One of the Inorganic Syn volumes basically had a hardware store list to make a fluorine generator. I had started purchasing equipment for it before I
graduated from college, the real hurdle though was the anhydrous HF to feed it. If I had a source of that or the double-salt I'd have certainly been
making it in my back yard. For better or worse - perxenates are awesome compounds, it's a shame that there is really no use for them to drive down
the price. I remember when I started working in the professional field feeling the same sadness that perbromates are next to impossible to buy
despite there being a known synthesis (although there's no specific utility to them).
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wg48temp9
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Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid  | | One of the Inorganic Syn volumes basically had a hardware store list to make a fluorine generator. I had started purchasing equipment for it before I
graduated from college, the real hurdle though was the anhydrous HF to feed it. If I had a source of that or the double-salt I'd have certainly been
making it in my back yard. snip |
"a hardware store list to make a fluorine generator" that had me intrigued., so I searched for it and found it: electrolysis of a molten mixture of a
double salt of a alkali fluoride/hydrogen fluoride and hydrogen fluoride in a copper apparatus with carbon electrodes.
|See https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/ja01268a031
Hydrogen fluoride can be made by heating a mixture of powdered calcium fluoride and concentrated sulphuric acid.
I am wg48 but not on my usual pc hence the temp handle.
Thank goodness for Fleming and the fungi.
Old codger' lives matters, wear a mask and help save them.
Be aware of demagoguery, keep your frontal lobes fully engaged.
I don't know who invented mRNA vaccines but they should get a fancy medal and I hope they made a shed load of money from it.
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BromicAcid
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Simple but probably effective. This was the exact post I was talking about though:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=2358
Still, @chornedsnorkack, you're not planning on making fluorine are you?
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chornedsnorkack
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Br2(l) + 2 e− ⇌ 2Br−
1.066
2FeO42− + 5H2O + 6 e− ⇌ Fe2O3(s) + 10 OH−
0.81
O2(g) + 2H2O + 4 e− ⇌ 4OH−(aq)
0.401
[HXeO6]3−+ 5H2O + 8 e− ⇌ Xe(g) + 11 OH−
1.18
[HXeO6]3−+ 2H2O + 2 e− ⇌ [HXeO4]−+ 4 OH−
0.99
Sounds that in basic conditions, neither ferrate nor bromine should oxidize xenon to perxenate. Yet, bromine should oxidize xenate to perxenate.
But this is a question of kinetics, not just equilibrium. Bromine should oxidize oxygen, not just ferrate. Ferrate should oxidize oxygen even in basic
solution, yet it does not.
What is the kinetics of ferrate oxidation of oxygen in neutral aqueous solutions like?
And I am very aware that not only fluorine but HF are very dangerous stuff far out of actual amateur experimentation league.
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yobbo II
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http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17233#...
and
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=144#pi...
Yob
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chornedsnorkack
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Hypochlorite is quoted as oxidant oxidizing iron to ferrates. Does iron readily dissolve in bleach?
Fe+3NaClO+2NaOH=Na2FeO4+3NaCl+H2O
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Bedlasky
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I think this would be very slow reaction. But maybe I am wrong. Ferrates are usually prepared from ferrous or ferric salts. You could try it. Add in
to the test tube small amount of iron with high surface area (powder, steel wool) and add some bleach. It sounds like an interesting experiment.
[Edited on 4-11-2022 by Bedlasky]
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