| Pages:
1
2
3 |
panajotovicn
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 1-1-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Synthesis of thioacetone?
Hi,
I was just wondering if it would be possible to synthesise C3H6S (thioacetone) form acetone and hydrogen sulfide under catalyst - aluminium chloride?
Yes/no? And, any other way?
Thanks.
[Edited on 1-1-2018 by panajotovicn]
|
|
|
Chemi Pharma
Hazard to Others
Posts: 350
Registered: 5-5-2016
Location: Latin America
Member Is Online
Mood: Quarantined
|
|
However Wikipedia supports your theory, I didn't find any workup treating about reacting acetone, H2S and AlCl3.
There are a few methods to produce thioacetone that can be found on Google. An interesting way is reacting acetone with PSCl3 and Triethylamine using
water as a solvent and microwave radiation:
But while I was researching about Alprazolam synthesis, I found a preparation described at a Patent that covers the substitution step of the oxigen
molecule of a ketone for sulfur, using phosphorus pentasulfide in an easier workup way:
I hope it helps!
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6334
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Don't do it man!
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2009/06/11/thi...
| Quote: | | “Recently we found ourselves with an odour problem beyond our worst expectations. During early experiments, a stopper jumped from a bottle of
residues, and, although replaced at once, resulted in an immediate complaint of nausea and sickness from colleagues working in a building two hundred
yards away. Two of our chemists who had done no more than investigate the cracking of minute amounts of trithioacetone found themselves the object of
hostile stares in a restaurant and suffered the humiliation of having a waitress spray the area around them with a deodorant. The odours defied the
expected effects of dilution since workers in the laboratory did not find the odours intolerable … and genuinely denied responsibility since they
were working in closed systems. To convince them otherwise, they were dispersed with other observers around the laboratory, at distances up to a
quarter of a mile, and one drop of either acetone gem-dithiol or the mother liquors from crude trithioacetone crystallisations were placed on a watch
glass in a fume cupboard. The odour was detected downwind in seconds.” |
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2799
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
As far as I know this molecule defeats all known containment procedures; there is no reported way of producing thioacetone without
causing severe discomfort to everyone in a kilometer radius. So this is one of the worst syntheses you could attempt: it cannot succeed by any
reasonable measure of "success".
|
|
|
Radium212
Hazard to Self
Posts: 85
Registered: 26-6-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pyrophoric.
|
|
Yeah, I'd avoid thioacetone. Have you heard of the Freiburg incident, where an entire block of the city had to be evacuated due to the stench from
some accidentally produced in a soap factory. If you're making some kind of stinkbomb maybe just use cadaverine or putrescine.
|
|
|
Chemi Pharma
Hazard to Others
Posts: 350
Registered: 5-5-2016
Location: Latin America
Member Is Online
Mood: Quarantined
|
|
I agree with the other members of this Forum that said it's a horrible stink chemical reagent.
But I think my duty here is just analyse the chemical reactions and the ways to do that with the better yields and in an OTC manner. Who knows if
you're intending to make exactly thioacetone or another thioketone?
People here often ask for a synthesis or a product that's not always is the real target of their questions. I'm used to see that, here, in this Forum.
If you want to know how to substitute the oxigen molecule of a ketone by sulfur, the way is follow the directions I've given. But If you really just
want to produce thioacetone to do a revenge against your enemies, like a skunk does, you're on the right way
|
|
|
PirateDocBrown
National Hazard
Posts: 570
Registered: 27-11-2016
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
For a stink bomb, it'd be best to have a device that can make it in situ, like from two reactants that combine with each other.
|
|
|
Radium212
Hazard to Self
Posts: 85
Registered: 26-6-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pyrophoric.
|
|
I suggest doing it microchemistry style in an ampoule. Seeing as it's a stink bomb you're not looking for something pure, just disgusting.
|
|
|
Radium212
Hazard to Self
Posts: 85
Registered: 26-6-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pyrophoric.
|
|
I suggest using cadaverine or putrescine for a stink bomb.
|
|
|
Tellurium
Hazard to Self
Posts: 84
Registered: 12-7-2017
Location: Group 16, Chalcogen City
Member Is Offline
Mood: smelly
|
|
You can use Acetone with some HCl and bubble H2S gas into this mixture. This will produce the trimer: Trithioacetone.
I already done this and even the trimer stinks terrible when concentrated, got a tiny drop of the liquid onto my hand and even days later people were
complaining about the smell. But please don't try to crack the Trithioacetone
to thioacetone - that stuff is far far worse!
|
|
|
Rhodanide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 348
Registered: 23-7-2015
Location: Ｔｈｅ ８０ｓ
Member Is Offline
Mood: That retro aesthetic
|
|
If you're looking for something stinky or strange smelling, I'd suggest going with Phenyl Isocyanide. Its toxicity is very low, and the synthesis is
very simple. It requires the following:
An Erlenmeyer flask
Equal amounts of both Aniline and Chloroform
Ethanol + Water in a 80/20 or 90/10 ratio (the less water the better, but enough to enable the reaction)
and finally, a smaller amount of Sodium Hydroxide (the amount depends on how much Aniline and Chloroform you use)
Dissolve the Aniline in the EtOH/H2O solvent, and dissolve the Sodium Hydroxide in to this. Add the Chloroform all at once, and stir to
dissolve. Put a thermometer in the flask, make a hole for the thermometer in some Saran wrap, and seal the top of the flask with it. Heat-seal the
wrap with a hairdryer or Heat gun on low heat. Gently warm the mixture to between 20-26 C for half an hour. You could distill the PhNC off
under vacuum if you wanted to, just make sure your ventilation system is top of the line, or you live way out there, like me. It's nauseatingly
pungent, and in the words of some, described as "highly specific, almost overpowering', 'horrible', and 'extremely distressing" (this was the
description of other, more volatile Isocyanides, but this goes for Phenyl as well).
|
|
|
James Nilep
Harmless
Posts: 7
Registered: 9-1-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have attempted the H2S Acetone method before using a hydrochloric acid catalyst with a large excess of acetone on a relatively small scale, but it
didn’t seem to yield any trithioacetone, just a smelly solution of H2S, although I did not attempt to crack the trimer, after all I didn’t want
the whole neighborhood to potentially vomit simultaneously
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Every time I've made H2S, it's been by accident. I'm not sure how one might make it deliberately. However, the accidental syntheses have typically
involved dissolving metal reduction of sulfate, or the reaction of metal with sulfur and subsequent acid hydrolysis. It's kind of hard to tell how
much is being produced though, just because it stinks a similar amount no matter how much or how little is produced.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
So apparently a solution of acetone and HCl that is bubbled with H2S will produce trithioacetone. This can then be concentrated, and distilled in
vacuum through a furnace tube at 500-650C to produce thioacetone.
What a lovely process. Would not touch it with a 10 meter pole. Although, if I were ever even hypothetically be interested in studying it, I would
obtain a miniature disposable equipment, walk kilometers deep to the woods and attempt it there - and discard everything afterwards. And the day after
read the news about strange rotten hell smell complaints all over that area.
But, a hypothetical question: if someone were to be able to produce it in useful quantities, could it be stored in sealed glass ampoules or would it
still diffuse through eventually? Ampouling stuff seems to be the only viable method to prevent very volatile or smelly stuff getting around.
Isopropylamine isn't bad btw. It has a very strong ammonia odor, much more organic though, with sort of rotty-sweetish tone like what isopropanol can
smell like in some quantities, but it's no way uncontrollable and it dissipates rather quickly. I'd rather handle it much more than phenylacetaldehyde
or phenylacetic acid, because those smells seemed to be hugely more persistent, I've still got some plastic canisters that smell like of it after over
a year sitting outdoors. On the other hand, cleaning equipment after handling isopropylamine left zero traces of odor.
[Edited on 20-7-2021 by Fyndium]
|
|
|
Ormarion
Hazard to Self
Posts: 55
Registered: 19-12-2017
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: Alkylating her DNA
|
|
From my side i made some of the trimer by bubbling H2S into a acetone and anhydrous AlCl3 mix, haven't worked on it again but i think it worked with
the smell it made
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
This is definitely something to be done during a heavy snow miles from the nearest human.
The animals may not appreciate it but at least you won't get arrested by them for possession of a chemical weapon.
Thioacetone is not technically a chemical weapon but try convincing a judge of that.
|
|
|
Ormarion
Hazard to Self
Posts: 55
Registered: 19-12-2017
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: Alkylating her DNA
|
|
I'm lucky to leave km away from any humans so i can work peacefully in the lab 
also the trimer smell is strong but not super volatile, i could only smell it from one or 2m of the lab
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
The trimer is harmless, until you heat it to decomposition to the monomer.
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
It looks to me that it could be made in situ by preparing the more stable trimer, and when needed, distilling it through pyrolysis tube to form the
monomer. I'm not sure if it would decompose further unless vacuum is used?
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
After reading this I don't know how anyone could possibly want to do this synthesis
|
|
|
Triflic Acid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline
Mood: Slowly Oxidizing into Oblivion
|
|
Well, I mean, if you lost your nose in some bizarre industrial accident, it probably would be a good way to enforce 6 mile social distancing 
There wasn't a fire, we just had an uncontrolled rapid oxidation event at the power plant.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
I'm very curious about this compound, especially about how bad it really is. But I'm definitely not going to try it, I'm just waiting for a news paper
to report about it once someone else did.
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
If we compare thioacetone to tert-butyl isocyanide, what scale are we talking about?
It seems that the stuff has never been studied because of it's foul properties. Perhaps one could make it in very, very minute quantities in a more
desolate location by using a gasoline lamp type device and place it over a heat source like simple campfire, where the trimer is first vaporized by
the heat, and led into tube that bends and goes through the flame, heating the tube sufficiently to decompose the trimer. Even if majority is lost,
even traces should be enough to prove the very nature of the stuff. Apparently free thioacetone is somewhat reactive so it will quickly cease into a
more stable form, so any long term harm should not occur, presuming the location is remote enough.
[Edited on 26-8-2021 by Fyndium]
|
|
|
Fery
International Hazard
Posts: 1026
Registered: 27-8-2019
Location: Czechoslovakia
Member Is Offline
|
|
this thread is very old, but here I found the method and experiments how to crack trimer to monomer. Not easy (ketene lamp, 1 mm Hg vacuum argon flow)
https://sci-hub.ee/10.1016/0032-3861(67)90069-9
Attachment: phplX10sb (1002kB)
This file has been downloaded 515 times
|
|
|
Keras
National Hazard
Posts: 933
Registered: 20-8-2018
Location: (48, 2)
Member Is Offline
|
|
What’s funny about thioacetone is that it seems to stink more in a diluted form (so far away from the source). I suspect, like H₂S, some sort of
overload of the olfactory nerves when the concentration is too high.
Good target for a microscale experiment :p
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
