BauArf56
Hazard to Self
Posts: 68
Registered: 22-8-2019
Location: between the moon and the sun
Member Is Offline
Mood: energetic
|
|
wall wart as power supply for electrolysis
i'm wondering if those apple's battery chargers could be used as power supply. They have as output 5V and 2A. Are they in dc?
|
|
|
njl
National Hazard
Posts: 609
Registered: 26-11-2019
Location: under the sycamore tree
Member Is Offline
Mood: ambivalent
|
|
While this isn't good practice I have to admit I've used them before, they will work for some reactions. Some things to keep in mind though. Newer,
smarter power bricks might require some interfacing with the device before any power is drawn, in other words they won't work as a power supply
without a phone on the other end. Second, the off-brand power bricks may have power regulation that's all over the place, 5V 2A is only reliable when
the equipment is reliable.
Reflux condenser?? I barely know her!
|
|
|
Johnny Cappone
Hazard to Self
Posts: 74
Registered: 10-12-2020
Location: Brazil
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yes, you can. It provide DC.
But note the points highlighted by njl. In fact, these chargers can be quite interesting in the absence of a suitable power supply. They are compact,
readily available and usually have protection against overcurrent/short circuit, which is always useful when working with exposed electrodes.
I would not recommend draining the 2 amps that it could, in theory, provide. At least not for long periods of time. These things were not meant to
work on the limit for hours on end and are likely to overheat. Do you have any specific electrolytic processes in mind? I made maybe a pound of
chlorate from one of those several years ago. Just respect it limits and be patient.
[Edited on 11-5-2021 by Johnny Cappone]
|
|
|
njl
National Hazard
Posts: 609
Registered: 26-11-2019
Location: under the sycamore tree
Member Is Offline
Mood: ambivalent
|
|
Actually, I think 2 amp phone chargers require feedback from the load in order to operate. You probably couldn't sustain 2 amps even if you wanted to.
Reflux condenser?? I barely know her!
|
|
|
BauArf56
Hazard to Self
Posts: 68
Registered: 22-8-2019
Location: between the moon and the sun
Member Is Offline
Mood: energetic
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Johnny Cappone  | Yes, you can. It provide DC.
But note the points highlighted by njl. In fact, these chargers can be quite interesting in the absence of a suitable power supply. They are compact,
readily available and usually have protection against overcurrent/short circuit, which is always useful when working with exposed electrodes.
I would not recommend draining the 2 amps that it could, in theory, provide. At least not for long periods of time. These things were not meant to
work on the limit for hours on end and are likely to overheat. Do you have any specific electrolytic processes in mind? I made maybe a pound of
chlorate from one of those several years ago. Just respect it limits and be patient.
[Edited on 11-5-2021 by Johnny Cappone] |
i was looking for a cheap alternative to 9 volt batteries, which usually are quite expensive, for making potassium chlorate.
|
|
|
Triflic Acid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline
Mood: Slowly Oxidizing into Oblivion
|
|
Maybe try shorturl.at/wGPT4, those look really promising for electrolysis.
There wasn't a fire, we just had an uncontrolled rapid oxidation event at the power plant.
|
|
|
Johnny Cappone
Hazard to Self
Posts: 74
Registered: 10-12-2020
Location: Brazil
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by BauArf56 |
i was looking for a cheap alternative to 9 volt batteries, which usually are quite expensive, for making potassium chlorate. |
There are much better alternatives than a cell phone charger. I would say 9V battery is not even an alternative.
Have you taken a look at the old AT/ATX power supplies? You can usually get one for a few bucks. They are excellent for the price they cost and can
supply up to 20A in the 5V line, in addition to having a 12v line useful for powering other equipment in the laboratory.
Or you can just buy a small dedicated 5V-10A power supply, I just saw one on Ebay for just over 12 US dollars.
@njl, I believe that the feedback requirement depends on the design of the charger. The most modern ones, in fact, seem to have some mechanism of this
type. Therefore, they will only function as a power supply when inserted into the intended circuit (recharge the cell phone battery). But most of
them, at least from what I've seen, can still be used as a standalone DC adapter.
|
|
|
Triflic Acid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline
Mood: Slowly Oxidizing into Oblivion
|
|
The apple chargers I used to use to power arduinos in the past, so I know that they work as DC adapters.
There wasn't a fire, we just had an uncontrolled rapid oxidation event at the power plant.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
Gonna need a bigger wart...
Check this out?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/streetwize-swbcg12-7-12a-battery-...
Edit to fix link.
[Edited on 11-5-2021 by hissingnoise]
|
|
|
Vomaturge
Hazard to Others
Posts: 286
Registered: 21-1-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: thermodynamic
|
|
I tried a very small cell on on a 2a 5v android charger whose usb cable had broken. I drew a a few hundred mA, for a few minutes before the whole room
started smelling like chlorine. I was more just messing around, not trying to create useful amounts of chlorates or chlorine.
Edit: definitely don't use a 9v battery. They're expensive, take a lot of resources to manufacture, and they will probably make so little electrolysis
products that you won't be able to extract them.
If I had to eletrolyze a large amount of material I'd use a rectifier and this little 50va toroidal 12v lighting transformer, that I wrapped with as
much 12Awg copper as would fit through the middle. In my case that gives 8.4v. Of course if you emulate this make sure you know what you're doing,
there's lots of ways to get electrocuted or start a fire when building a line volt
[Edited on 12-5-2021 by Vomaturge]
I now have a YouTube channel. So far just electronics and basic High Voltage experimentation, but I'll hopefully have some chemistry videos soon. |
|
|
yobbo II
National Hazard
Posts: 764
Registered: 28-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
MOTHER OF GOD Hiss.
Thats like something you would hear in the health and safety office of a brothel when a worker was looking for a week off work!
Some old wall warts are actually AC out (for toys and other things) so make sure they are DC
Yob
|
|
|
Twospoons
International Hazard
Posts: 1326
Registered: 26-7-2004
Location: Middle Earth
Member Is Offline
Mood: A trace of hope...
|
|
TBH you'd be better off investing in a proper variable bench power supply. It will (should) be more reliable, and way more versatile- with the ability
to run constant voltage or constant current ( both will be adjustable) this should open up more avenues in electrochemistry. I have one that will do
up to 5A @16V or 3A @27V or 2A@36V (selectable) - cost me 80NZD new ( thats circa 45USD).
I also have a secondhand beauty that will do up to 50A at 60V (yep thats 3kW!) - old HP bench unit I scored for $300. So keep an eye on ebay for
bargains like that. Some sellers don't really understand what they're selling.
Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Car battery chargers are essentially a transformer with variable switches for different voltage between 5-24V and they can give from 5A to 400A
depending on size. They provide DC current straight out of box and are not at all expensive. Were lazy, I'd just get one.
Also, welding transformers are an excellent source for electrolysis, although they may be a bit big for many. Smaller ones come from microwaves. Just
re-wind them to get desired voltage(4-6V usually), and use a full-wave rectifier to get full power DC out from it.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
99.9% of wall warts are DC. AC adaptors are rare super rare. I've only ever seen three.
In my whole life. And that's out of about 1000 of them. And it'll always clearly state
DC or AC and volts and amps. Also what model of phone requires 2A? Thats a lot for a phone. Maybe an iPad.
|
|
|
BauArf56
Hazard to Self
Posts: 68
Registered: 22-8-2019
Location: between the moon and the sun
Member Is Offline
Mood: energetic
|
|
thank you all for answering! Yes, the charger is for ipad. So i'll try, i just hope to do not get shocked!
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Some phone charger models have rather high power, for example warp charge for OnePlus. Long battery life isn't that important anymore, when you can
charge it full in 15 minutes.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
there are all kinds of wall warts and laptop chargers that will supply a good amount of power.
Older battery chargers are perfect as they are usually switchable between 6 and 12V and can output upwards to 10A continuously, the newer smart
chargers won't work.
https://www.amazon.com/Aiposen-Transformer-Security-Computer...
$10 and free prime, they have models up to 60 amps.
There are also 12v and 24v models available.
If you get a 24v model, you can get an adjustable buck converter (or 6) to provide various output voltages and currents.
It is also possible to make a simple mosfet/op amp current regulator.
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1681
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
use a microwave transformer, they can output 70A with low voltage
i cant remember the modification but im sure you can find some data on it
actually it might just be 3 thick copper windings in place of the top coil
i made my own spot welder, and it puts out 100ish amps with less than 10V, thats 2 thick copper windings in place of the top
otherwise ebay sells cheap powersupplies, just type in 5V 40A
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2168
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Some wall warts are better than others.
You can buy some really nice high amp (30a) 12v power supplies on amazon.
Then buy a drok buck converter or two or three.
12v 30a:
https://www.amazon.com/SUPERNIGHT-Universal-Transformer-Indu...
buck converter with voltage and current limit:
https://www.amazon.com/DROK-Converter-5-3V-32V-Regulator-Tra...
|
|
|
katyushaslab
Hazard to Self
Posts: 81
Registered: 19-1-2021
Member Is Offline
Mood: precipitating
|
|
I've used a mobile phone charger to drive small electrolysis cells for chlorates.
Pictures of a super tiny cell:
Cell: https://i.redd.it/whqcgaiu3ga71.jpg
Electrodes: https://i.redd.it/v9hldyv8mr971.jpg
Yield: https://i.redd.it/h8oyxydbmmd71.jpg
I scaled it up to 500ml of electrolyte and still got decent yields, ended up producing over a kilo of potassium chlorate that way. More than I
actually needed.
Edit: fixed image links.
[Edited on 26-10-2021 by katyushaslab]
[Edited on 26-10-2021 by katyushaslab]
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
Thanks for sharing. I can only see your first link and no image of the power supply. Presumably it was less than 2 amps? How long did it take to
produce that much perchlorate? I would have thought a phone charger wouldn't cope with powering an electrolysis cell, very interesting.
|
|
|
katyushaslab
Hazard to Self
Posts: 81
Registered: 19-1-2021
Member Is Offline
Mood: precipitating
|
|
Power supply was, specifically, the standard one that comes with an "OnePlus 8 Pro". It is capable of doing higher power delivery, but my measurements
(taken in-line using one of those gadgets for testing phone chargers) showed amperage around 2A normally. It got up to 2.5A sometimes, and sometimes
dipped below 2A, with voltage usually being 4.5-5.5V.
I basically ran the cells (various iterations) non stop from July 10th to 19th September, harvesting product once a week, refreshing electrolyte, etc.
Mostly it was a test of the endurance of the little electrodes.
The electrodes were one of those USB powered "bleach maker" contraptions you find on Chinese websites.
I also fixed the links in the post, the images should load now!
I'll eventually scrape together all the notes and do a proper writeup, I mostly just chucked results on Reddit or Twitter as I went along.
[Edited on 26-10-2021 by katyushaslab]
|
|
|
Texium
|
Thread Moved
30-11-2023 at 08:21 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
