fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
PTFE filters? What are they for?
I saw PTFE filter "paper" on ebay, thin like paper. Anyone knows what they're for?
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5128
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
"What are they for?"
Anything you like; that's the point.
Want to filter sulphuric acid?- no problem. Strong solvents like ethyl acetate?- sure.
Weird stuff like concentrated solutions of zinc chloride or cuprammonium sulphate? go right ahead.
Don't try those with cellulose based filters, or nitrocellulose ones.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2753
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mildly disgruntled scientist
|
|
They are membrane filters, often used to micro filter a solution. They are ideal for removing almost any particle, even most bacteria, if the pore
size is right. They work well for organic solvents, not so well for water, which does not wet them. There are other materials in membrane form for
aqueous solutions. Most are used with Whatman type 47 mm filter apparati.
|
|
|
TheMrbunGee
Hazard to Others
Posts: 364
Registered: 13-7-2016
Location: EU
Member Is Offline
Mood: Phosphorising
|
|
I accidentally ordered MCE (mixed cellulose ester) filter papers, cut out and everything, sadly they dissolve in methanol, most used solvent in my
lab. There are quite a lot of filter paper materials, as I researched after my "paper" filter dissolved away with everything, each better for some
specific application.
|
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1596
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Would you want to share the links? I'm looking for some PTFE filters, especially sheets that are cuttable to proper size if possible.
I'm looking at making a PTFE filter housing that can take square sheets of PTFE filter membrane where I can replace the filters. The only thing I'm
wondering about is if there is a problem using a square filter. The filter would be held down very tightly (near 2500-5000 PSI holding down filter
material using bolts/screws on outside of housing - it's amazing the pressure that can be obtained from bolts!).
The round filter papers are pretty expensive and I'm trying to find a place where I can buy uncut sheets. If you find anywhere, please let me know.
I'm thinking maybe alibaba might be a place to find these.
Also, here is a PTFE chemical compatability chart and you will see why it is such a great material for filtration membrane! It even is great with
things like aqua regia, fuming HCl or nitric acid and even 100% HF (scary!!)!
https://www.calpaclab.com/teflon-ptfe-compatibility/
I thought I'd look through and see what PTFE didn't have "A-Excellent" resistivity to and here's the list, which is less than 1% of the listed
chemicals
"B - Good"
Fuel Oils
Gallic Acid
Gasoline (high-aromatic)
Lead Sulfamate
Mercuric Cyanide
Naphtha
"C - Fair"
Iodoform
Petrolatum
" D - Severe"
Diethylamine
Fluorine
Gold Monocyanide
[Edited on 10-21-2019 by RogueRose]
[Edited on 10-21-2019 by RogueRose]
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
Hmm, I've used PTFE-coated stir bars with diethylamine solutions and I've never had a problem.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Pulling aqueous through a PTFE filter is very difficult. Just a voice of experience.
|
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1596
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Well maybe pressure, time and temp can effect how reactive it is. Filters will probably be higher pressure and maybe higher temp. IDK though, I was
just listing what was on the page - not personal experience. It's good to know your experience.
I'd be intersted to know the weight of the stirrer before and after the stirring. Maybe it dissolved some PTFE and it wasn't very noticeable?
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You said it wrong:
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT !
You guys remember when you didnt have a vacuum pump and had to filter superfine particles clogging the filter and adding to the funnel every few hours
?
Well, it's almost that bad.
But hey, in my case I didnt think much before proceeding and chose the most inefficient solution so I'm the only one to blame.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1596
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  |
You said it wrong:
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT !
You guys remember when you didnt have a vacuum pump and had to filter superfine particles clogging the filter and adding to the funnel every few hours
?
Well, it's almost that bad.
But hey, in my case I didnt think much before proceeding and chose the most inefficient solution so I'm the only one to blame. |
I'm wondering if it was slow filtering b/c you used a really small pore size or is it b/c of PTFE is hydrophobic maybe?
I've used .45um and .22um filters but I used a 3ml syringe and about 50-70 syringes worth for the 200ml and it seemed pretty easy until the last ~10
or so and it got progressively harder until it was impossible. I started off with a 60ml syringe and it was near impossible after about 8ml worth,
then tried 20ml, then moved to 3ml.
IDK if the smaller syringe allows for more pressure or what, but it made a huge difference.
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose | Would you want to share the links? I'm looking for some PTFE filters, especially sheets that are cuttable to proper size if possible.
I'm looking at making a PTFE filter housing that can take square sheets of PTFE filter membrane where I can replace the filters. The only thing I'm
wondering about is if there is a problem using a square filter. The filter would be held down very tightly (near 2500-5000 PSI holding down filter
material using bolts/screws on outside of housing - it's amazing the pressure that can be obtained from bolts!).
The round filter papers are pretty expensive and I'm trying to find a place where I can buy uncut sheets. If you find anywhere, please let me know.
I'm thinking maybe alibaba might be a place to find these. |
I just searched ptfe filter on ebay.com. There
are literally tons of it. Unfortunately the links I copied are monstrously long.
|
|
|
G-Coupled
Hazard to Others
Posts: 287
Registered: 9-3-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Slightly triturated
|
|
You can shorten the links by using the 'URL Tool' on the formatting bar above the post box - it looks like a low rez blue/green globe with a paperclip
(?) next to it.
Like this
[Edited on 23-10-2019 by G-Coupled]
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose |
I'm wondering if it was slow filtering b/c you used a really small pore size or is it b/c of PTFE is hydrophobic maybe?
|
Maybe a bit of both but I'm certain I clogged the filter.
Also, since you are looking for sheets / plates be careful not to get fabric impregnated with PTFE. I'm not sure this would be useful as the
distribution is uneven.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5128
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You can make life easier by pre-wetting the filter with a little methanol or acetone before trying to draw water through it.
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
I was just about to write that! Yes, pre-wetting PTFE membrane filters with organic solvent before trying to filter aqueous solutions helps a lot.
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Must the wetting solvent be water-miscible?
|
|
|
Tellurium
Hazard to Self
Posts: 84
Registered: 12-7-2017
Location: Group 16, Chalcogen City
Member Is Offline
Mood: smelly
|
|
I tested it out a few minutes ago.
For comparison I took a unwetted filter, a acetone wetted filter and a DCM wetted filter. "Competitor" for the 0,45um syringe filter was a freshly
prepared suspension of precipitated lead sulfate in water.
Through both the Acetone and DCM wetted filter the suspension was a lot more easy to filter, than with the unwetted filter. But I feel, like the
acetone wetted filter was a little bit easier to push, but only a very minor difference
[Edited on 9-12-2019 by Tellurium]
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
Interesting, I would not have expected that.
|
|
|
glen
Harmless
Posts: 11
Registered: 8-11-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Normal PTFE membrane filters are generally used for either gas filtration or NP solvent filtration. In all cases to remove things such as bacteria or
fungal spores if they are .2um pore size.
Non normal HYDROPHILIC PTFE membranes are used for things which might be polar but detrimental to other membrane materials.
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yep, they are used also in sterile 0.2um and 0.1um filtration, for example pharmaceutical injectable oil formulations. I've once accidentally seen
them in use because my friend in the past decade used such filters to filter steroid stuff. I thought about the whole idea several years later and at
that time I just though it was some random thing done to make it more clear. The idea of sterilizing solutions by filtering still fascinates me.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
