S.chegini
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 4-9-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
Lead dioxide anodes
Dear friends
One of my friends introduced you to me as an expert in the field of lead dioxide anode manufacturing. I have made an anode in an experimental setup
and i want to utilized it in a perchlorate cell. However, there are some questions in this field for me.
1. I have heard that the anodes should be activated before electrolysis in perchlorate cell. How can i do it?
2. The initial quantity of sodium floride in my electrodeposition bath is about 2 g/lit. How much sodium floride should be added to the
electrodeposition bath after manufacturing of an anode with the length of 30 cm and diameter of 4 cm and coating thickness of 3 mm
3. The surface of deposit which is obtained at temperature of 85 degree centigrade is rough. How can i decrease it?
The Best Regards
S. Chegini.
|
|
|
underground
National Hazard
Posts: 702
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
Why don't you just buy them from alibaba. This is what most people do
|
|
|
Pyro_cat
Hazard to Others
Posts: 243
Registered: 30-4-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Certain satisfaction from making stuff from things you can find in your environment.
Sure you can buy potassium nitrate but you can also make it from urine.
|
|
|
underground
National Hazard
Posts: 702
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
Making LD anodes is a very hazardous process. Lead nitrate is very toxic.
|
|
|
yobbo II
National Hazard
Posts: 762
Registered: 28-3-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
https://geocitieschloratesite.000webhostapp.com/
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1387
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
Every beginner has tendention make all from nothing. Is it an basic feature of the researchers. But sometimes it is in basically impossible. Created
the quality lead dioxide, in homemade conditions, on the reliable carrier substrate is one from them. ... ...LL
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | | Every beginner has tendention make all from nothing. Is it an basic feature of the researchers. But sometimes it is in basically impossible. Created
the quality lead dioxide, in homemade conditions, on the reliable carrier substrate is one from them. ......LL |
Really? But what if I take then from an accumulator? When it is charged, one electrode contents lead, the other lead dioxide.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1387
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
This is a great idea and logical judgment, but it does not work. The battery electrode disintegrates within minutes. If it were so easy, everyone
would have done it long ago. But you can try it.......LL
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
caterpillar
Hazard to Others
Posts: 472
Registered: 8-1-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | | This is a great idea and logical judgment, but it does not work. The battery electrode disintegrates within minutes. If it were so easy, everyone
would have done it long ago. But you can try it.......LL
|
But why? It lives in an accumulator and withstands many cycles. Why should it disintegrate in the solution of NaClO3?
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
|
|
|
rockyit98
Hazard to Others
Posts: 283
Registered: 12-4-2019
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: no mood is a good mood
|
|
i keep sodium sulfide with in a hand of reach when i'm dealing with toxic soluble compounds .like Pb Cu Ni Mn Cr Hg salts. you cannot be too careful.
Making Graphite Substrate Lead Dioxide Anodes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXSpqy2TNWo
|
|
|
markx
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 7-8-2003
Location: Northern kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Jolly
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar | | Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | | This is a great idea and logical judgment, but it does not work. The battery electrode disintegrates within minutes. If it were so easy, everyone
would have done it long ago. But you can try it.......LL
|
But why? It lives in an accumulator and withstands many cycles. Why should it disintegrate in the solution of NaClO3? |
In perchlorate cell the anodes are strongly polarized. About 2V vs. SCE for optimal synthesis of perchlorate with PbO2 material. As far as I know lead
acid batteries do not reach such polarisation levels. This is perhaps one of the contributing factors to anode deterioration under perchlorate
formation conditions.
A lead dioxide anode that holds up to operation very nicely in sulfuric acid solutions tends to disintegrate quite fast in a perchlorate cell.
For reference regarding perhlorate synthesis on PbO2:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.824...
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1379
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by S.chegini | Dear friends
One of my friends introduced you to me as an expert in the field of lead dioxide anode manufacturing. I have made an anode in an experimental setup
and i want to utilized it in a perchlorate cell. However, there are some questions in this field for me.
1. I have heard that the anodes should be activated before electrolysis in perchlorate cell. How can i do it?
|
I don't think I have ever read about an activation step (where did you come across it?), and it is certainly not essential. I and others have used
lead dioxide anodes directly after plating and that seems to work fine.
| Quote: |
2. The initial quantity of sodium floride in my electrodeposition bath is about 2 g/lit. How much sodium floride should be added to the
electrodeposition bath after manufacturing of an anode with the length of 30 cm and diameter of 4 cm and coating thickness of 3 mm
|
The electrodeposition bath does not usually contain fluoride as far as I am aware, but it is added to the perchlorate cell electrolyte to improve
current efficiency. This is optional. Perchlorate cells can work without it, at the cost of reduced efficiency. 2 g/L sodium fluoride is a typical
concentration for that application. I don’t think fluoride is consumed in the reaction, but I can image small amounts may be lost with the
harvesting of raw, crystallised product, and perhaps as volatile HF, depending on cell pH. I don’t recall reading anywhere about a need for periodic
re-addition of fluoride.
What is the composition of your electrodeposition bath, and what is the substrate that you are plating?
Also take note of sodium fluoride's highly poisonous nature, in your consideration whether to add it to your cells or not.
| Quote: |
3. The surface of deposit which is obtained at temperature of 85 degree centigrade is rough. How can i decrease it?
|
Keep in mind that roughness is not necessarily a problem in itself, as long as there are no pits/defects in the coating. That being said, several
methods are known. I have obtained extremely shiny deposits by plating onto a rotating anode.
Other methods are adding certain surfactants to the plating bath (I specifically recall cetyl trimethyl ammonium bromide being used), sonication, and
suspending abrasive particles in the bath with strong stirring. All of these have the effect of removing bubbles from the anode as it is being plated.
Another reason for a rough coating may be excessively high current density. What current density are you using while plating?
If you haven’t seen it already, there is very long, but great thread on lead dioxide electrodes: here. Well worth the read.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1592
Registered: 16-6-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
It depends on what you need. Are you talking about commonly available chemicals or harder to find chems? Ebay is good of course, sometimes prices
can be high or questionably low.
There is a company called "the science company" that has a good selection of chems for a good prices.
There are a few pyrotechnics companies that have a very nice selection of chems as well, do a search as I don't want to name them here b/c of stupid
people (not referring to users here..). PM me is you want.
Pottery companies are also a good source for chems that are used in their profession, which is actually a pretty wide range.
Biodiesel producers have a nice selection asl well from acids, to bases.
Pool chem companies.
If you are looking for something specific message me and I'll see if I can point you in the right direction but if it is for more advanced chemistry,
I'm not going to be much help there as those suppliers often need businesses for shipping or sales.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
