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G-Coupled
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Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  |
The problem with battery acid is getting caught with it, i am legal and comply 100% but lately the amount of aggro i am getting is madness.
I know why i am getting problems and its nothing to do with me personally, probably more like guilty by association.
No you havnt caused me any problems, in fact its given me the push to grab this by the nuts and get it sorted. Everything was/is in my name, so there
should be no issue.
I will get it sorted out, i have a friend who lives 25 miles away and has a lab, he dosnt get the problems i get. But there are differences between
where we live, i dont think most of it is aimed directly at me i think its for other reasons local to me.
Dosnt help i found out we have a tiny military base a couple of miles up the road!! all the time i lived here and i didnt know it existed.
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What you think is responsible for you getting such a disproportionate amount of aggro?
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled |
| Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry |
The problem with battery acid is getting caught with it, i am legal and comply 100% but lately the amount of aggro i am getting is madness.
I know why i am getting problems and its nothing to do with me personally, probably more like guilty by association.
No you havnt caused me any problems, in fact its given me the push to grab this by the nuts and get it sorted. Everything was/is in my name, so there
should be no issue.
I will get it sorted out, i have a friend who lives 25 miles away and has a lab, he dosnt get the problems i get. But there are differences between
where we live, i dont think most of it is aimed directly at me i think its for other reasons local to me.
Dosnt help i found out we have a tiny military base a couple of miles up the road!! all the time i lived here and i didnt know it existed.
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What you think is responsible for you getting such a disproportionate amount of aggro? |
A local issue, i am now aware of the likely reason and its not aimed at me directly, but at the moment its kind of wrong place wrong time.
I dont think it will be too long before normal service is resumed.
I dont want to say more than that for now, but having seen some info online it does make me feel less like i am personally being picked on.
I am not the only person in our tiny village having a hard time getting things. Even the local gun owners (just about the entire village lol) are all
getting regular visits.
Just one of those temporary things until it all gets sorted i guess.
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zed
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I just read about a young British man who threw acid in the faces of half a dozen people. He got only ten years in prison. A slap on the wrist.
In some U.S. jurisdictions, he might have received a more just sentence. Twenty five years per offense, terms to be served consecutively. Total 150
years.
He should never be released from prison.
In China, where most of my glassware comes from, I assume they would simply execute him.
Punish the criminal, not the normally law abiding public.
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karlos³
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Banning sulfuric acid?? Even such a diluted version?
I wonder what will be bannend next time, maybe car lead batteries in a similar idiotic act.
It is long over the point for me to understand all this happening.
This acid "ban" is like a plaster for a broken leg, just treating the symptoms in the hope it will get well and is gone after a period of doing
nothing, just sitting it out 
Lets face it: as a fellow european I know and see what is happening now very well, I also think I understand why they needed to ban the acid, and not
what they really should've banned, the real cause behind these modern acid attacks, but instead they choose doing only this indifferent symbolic act.
Seems like that just wasn't on their political agenda, probably because it is not PC. 
The UK was very fine before that phenomenon has happened to them, considered that concentrated sulfuric acid is not only an essential part of the UK,
no it was even fabricated industrially for the first time, already ~280 years ago!.
Famous glover acid is even named after that city.
I just don't get this overreaction now, it is simply the consequence of their own actions(=the gouvernments own actions).
It is obvious that it is neither the acid itself who is causing the attacks, nor is it the fault of the native british people, since they got along
well until this unspoken new issue came to the land.
This is the one recent and important change that has happened in the UK, and since it is neither the acid nor the brits causing these attacks, what
else could it be then...?
(guess in the UK implying such a thing would've already qualified as hate speech...)
It really feels like all the european people experience a massive hallucination or some sort of delirium, and those who realise what is happening
around them...
Well, lets compare it with the fairy tale: if one of them, briefly woken up, points "it" out like the child who was the first to shout "the emperor is
naked!" ...
Only here, instead of other people waking up slowly too, accept and hopefully adapt to the harsh reality there is... oh no!
Instead they will start to shout at the person who has dared to disturb their brain-dead slumber with saying such mean things like describing the
reality, they will call him a nazi! 
A horrific massive psychosis is what I call it, not a hallucination, those can be pleasant, but the actual state of europe is more of a sole downside.
Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them
lawfully...
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sbreheny
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I am sorry for you guys in the UK having to deal with these silly laws. I think, though, that some people here have a fundamental misunderstanding of
some of the US laws. In the US it is perfectly legal to own chemicals which are on the DEA precursor lists (aka List 1 and List 2) - the restrictions
are on the sellers (recordkeeping) and for some of the more "suspicious" items there is also a quantity per time limit for purchasing. Yes, this
causes a lot of places to be unwilling to sell them to hobbyists but it is still a lot better than an outright ban or a requirement to purchase a
license. Also, the recent regulation regarding DCM doesn't make it illegal to own or sell. It just makes it illegal to advertise it for use as a paint
stripper (or to sell a paint stripper which has a significant amount of DCM in it). Silly, but still very different than banning ownership of DCM.
As far as I know, the only chemicals which are so tightly regulated in most of the US (a few states are more draconian) are prescription drugs or
scheduled drugs, explosives, and extreme poisons (like nerve agents - not cyanides, those are legal). Far more silly, though, is the fact that a
handfull of US states require permits for lab glassware.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
Maybe i am talking bollocks, but i cant help but feel the above is closer to the truth than we admit.
Of course these days you cant speak out, you have to apply for a license two weeks in advance and have your route approved...yes honestly
[Edited on 5-6-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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Herr Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ |
Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them
lawfully... |
The first time my mother told me about Vitriol I didnt even knew what an acid was but I do remember my mother more or less telling me it was
commonplace in India / Pakistan to use it on other people to disfigure them.
I dont think she was prejudiced at all, it was just her experience.
Is it still true today ? I dont know. I just know it's a horrible thing to do to someone else.
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LearnedAmateur
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| Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber | | Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ |
Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them
lawfully... |
The first time my mother told me about Vitriol I didnt even knew what an acid was but I do remember my mother more or less telling me it was
commonplace in India / Pakistan to use it on other people to disfigure them.
I dont think she was prejudiced at all, it was just her experience.
Is it still true today ? I dont know. I just know it's a horrible thing to do to someone else. |
There have been around a thousand attacks here in the UK over the past few years, including one in my town a couple of months ago - not saying he
deserved it but it happened because the guy went around waving a knife at people. Immigrant Muslims and other foreigners seem to be the main targets
the media hone in on, but there have been some instances where it has happened for no apparent reason, such as a mass attack in a nightclub last year.
From what I’ve read in the past, these sort of attacks are somewhat common in Southeast Asia as a retaliation to adultery (a kind of ‘if you
don’t want me then I’ll make sure nobody wants you’ mentality as far as I understand), but my guess is that there are a whole plethora of
reasons, like with any other violent crime.
[Edited on 6-6-2018 by LearnedAmateur]
In chemistry, sometimes the solution is the problem.
It’s been a while, but I’m not dead! Updated 7/1/2020. Shout out to Aga, we got along well.
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sbreheny
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One thing I don't understand about these acid attacks is the extent of skin damage to the victims. I'm sure we have all gotten a few drops of
concentrated H2SO4 on our hands accidentally once or twice. It doesn't do any damage right away - it takes a good 30 seconds to even get started
causing damage to intact skin. I have also gotten a few drops of 70% HNO3 on my hand once accidentally. That began to hurt a bit after only about 5
seconds and it did damage the very upper layer of my skin before I noticed the pain and rinsed it off. So, I understand how nitric acid could be used
for these attacks and cause the kind of damage that I've seen pictures of, but sulfuric is harder for me to believe. If you threw sulfuric acid on
someone's face, I could certainly see it causing eye damage almost right away, maybe some damage to lips, but the forehead and cheeks should not be
damaged significantly in less than 1 minute or maybe even 3 minutes or so, which I would think would be enough time to run into a nearby shop and ask
for water to rinse it off.
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kulep
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more than 30 seconds of exposure to 98% sulfuric in your face would definitely cause some serious damage, even more if it's hot aswell
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j_sum1
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Added to that. Skin on face, eyes and mucous membranes is a lot more sensitive than hands (which are remarkably tough). It is easier to cause damage
to these sensitive areas.
Rinsing off quickly (within 30s) is something easy to do in a lab. But not so easy in the street or on the subway.
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DavidJR
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Also, a couple of drops on the hand is a lot easier to clean off quickly than a whole face full...
Anyway - the unfortunate situation is that there are some really shitty people who'd do that sort of thing. And because of that, amateur chemistry
suffers.
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Corrosive Joeseph
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Here is more of it...........
"Worcester 'acid attack': Boy aged three injured" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-449...
/CJ
[Edited on 23-7-2018 by Corrosive Joeseph]
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
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VSEPR_VOID
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If acid is banned another substitute will be found: Boiling oil, chlorine, lye, gasoline
[Edited on 23-7-2018 by VSEPR_VOID]
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
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symboom
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The gelled acid might not be a bad idea if it can be used for all sulfuric acod experiments where silicon dioxide is no a problem in the reaction.
Soapbox
maybe in the uk people will be carrying baking soda water as nutrilizing agent and weponized citizens might solve the problem the if every one had a
gun theory.
And probally mental health screening like the US is doing.
But of course goverment has to protect us from ourselves
Because they know best. :/ because the citizens are like children. Thats my thought on the thinking of the policy
Im sorry UK i did not know you guy have it so hard.
Maybe the movie V for vendetta as the country acts like a nanny/police state might come a reality for UK.
Also the amazon sifi series electric dreams showed something simular.
A Trade your freedom and privacy for ultimate safety
[Edited on 23-7-2018 by symboom]
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MJ101
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What you may end up seeing is what the USA does: Taxation by licensing.
Only licensed plumbers will be able to get a license to purchase and carry sulfuric acid. It's no different with Exterminators.
You need to have a valid license to buy the chemicals you need.
Same with firearm permits. It costs a small fortune to get a range permit. And forget about a concealed carry permit.
You have to prove that you're carrying a lot of money or precious gems daily to justify it.
And if you do something wrong, you'll end up in jail. (The Sullivan Act.)
Amateur chemistry may end up going the way of HAM radio: HAM operators need to have licenses to operate amateur transmitters.
Not to mention that you might be forced to carry special insurance, because the things you work with can be misused, and possibly
discarded incorrectly.
Just like amateur chemists, Firearms enthusiasts know all about safety. And they practice it to the utmost.
One mistake can cost someone their life, as I'm sure you all know.
Criminals can get guns. Terrorists can get chemical weapon precursors.
The information for synthesis is everywhere.
e.g. TABUN : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabun_(nerve_agent)
Now I neither know if it's correct, nor do I care. I'd rather bake scones or extract cannabis from pot than be bothered with that shit.
But it's there. Staring everyone right in the face. Along with a bunch of other deadly chemical weapons.
And some skilled organic chemist with an axe to grind may show some lunatic the correct synthesis.
This isn't political. This is about a lot of people being scared out of their wits because of the actions of the insane.
And the government steps in and passes ridiculous laws just to give some peace of mind to the masses.
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Herr Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by MJ101 |
This isn't political. This is about a lot of people being scared out of their wits because of the actions of the insane.
And the government steps in and passes ridiculous laws just to give some peace of mind to the masses.
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To be scared out of your wits you'd have to have some first.
Wits lost since the ban of liquids in Airplanes.
All this to protect us from terrorists that did not have a plan nor a target....
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Sulaiman
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Today I had my first visit to a hardware shop for many months,
to my surprise there are choices for sodium hydroxide drain cleaner
and
96% sulphuric acid drain unblocker
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fusso
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Today I had my first visit to a hardware shop for many months,
to my surprise there are choices for sodium hydroxide drain cleaner
and
96% sulphuric acid drain unblocker |
I remember you're in UK?
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Sulaiman
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Yes, I'm in UK and the EPP ban on >15% sulphuric acid possession came into force on 1 November
with importing or distribution banned since 1 July this year.
The shop was busy so I did not chat with the owner
on previous occasions he told me that there are bulletins for distributors,
he had been made aware of the sulphuric acid ban months ago,
I guess that as a businessman,
if his wholesaler supplies it and customers buy it then there is no problem.
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nezza
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The stupidest thing about this is that concentrated caustic alkalis (still freely available) are almost as nasty as sulphuric acid but our government
of scientifically illiterate idiots are too stupid to do anything about their sale (yet). We are living in a cowardly authoritarian idiocracy and
don't even ask me WHY this situation has arrived.
Rant over.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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fusso
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| Quote: Originally posted by nezza | The stupidest thing about this is that concentrated caustic alkalis (still freely available) are almost as nasty as sulphuric acid but our government
of scientifically illiterate idiots are too stupid to do anything about their sale (yet). We are living in a cowardly authoritarian idiocracy and
don't even ask me WHY this situation has arrived.
Rant over. |
Both shouldn't be banned just because they can be used in attacks. Banning them do more harms
than good.
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