BPS
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Substitute
I am wondering if an ammonium perchlorate oxidiser based, black powder substitute for use in bp firearms will work well.
There are some such compositions on the market but most either leave very corrosive , or unacceptable levels of fouling.
The oxidiser in most is metallic perchlorates and/or nitrates, the byproducts of which are corrosive salts.
I am thinking if perhaps an AP based mix, with maybe Carbon as fuel would work and deflagerate with predictable consistency.
Has anyone been down this road ?
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Best will, try it. AP 80 + C 20 = OB on CO2 -26,1
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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BPS
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Might try it out if I can get hold of some AP.
Thing is , I might end up with the same problems of corrosive fouling with decomposition of AP instead of PP.... Nh4 chloride and HCl, not sure.
The decomposition of AP is a little involved.
AN might be better in this regard, but its hygroscopic and dont know of any formulation to mitigate this effect.
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BPS
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residue
Just found this doc.
It would appear that almost all the C is left unchanged in the residue.
Though this needs to be looked into........ "In the presence of carbon, the reaction is complete above 240"C, the residue
consisting of carbon only (except, of course, in those runs in which explosion
occurred-see fig. 4)".
How the perchloric acid reacts, combined with water in the atmosphere, in a gun barrel, is anybodies guess at this point.
Attachment: AP C.pdf (658kB)
This file has been downloaded 380 times
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physics inclination
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Yea I guess one problem with chlorates in general, for implementation as a gun propellant, is that most all chlorine salts would be corrosive.
I wonder if ammonium nitrate could have performance like ammonium (per)chlorate, or whether AN would be too explosive for propellant purposes.
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Fulmen
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AN has excellent performance as a propellant, but limited usefulness as it's hygroscopic and undergoes phase changes that can cause grains to
crumble/crack. Do a search for ammonpulver and phase stabilized AN.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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XeonTheMGPony
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Durring WW2 the German Wehrmacht Tried doing that with 95/5 AN/C, How ever as stated its tendency to recrystallize randomly caused burst barrels they
switched to using it as a bursting charge Vs propellant.
Perchlorates = Rust + rust + even more rust!!
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Metacelsus
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Interesting fact: this is what caused the notorious airbag explosions a few years ago. Manufacturers switched to cheaper ammonium nitrate, but didn't
properly test the stability.
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Bert
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Quote: Originally posted by physics inclination  | Yea I guess one problem with chlorates in general, for implementation as a gun propellant, is that most all chlorine salts would be corrosive.
I wonder if ammonium nitrate could have performance like ammonium (per)chlorate, or whether AN would be too explosive for propellant purposes.
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Chlorate propellants have a history of showing a rather more immediate problem than corrosion... Blowing up the gun or rocket motor. Seriously. 200+
years of explosives engineering has not yielded propellants using chlorate both superior to other salts AND safe enough for commercial and military
use. But bursting charge and high explosives uses a-plenty.
.Perhaps keep any experiments small and well baricaded?
AP and AN both can function as either high explosives or oxidizers in propellant mixtures. Particle size and mixture are critical. Pure AP below 15
micron particle size is classed as a 1.1 explosive in transport.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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