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JJay
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Things I Will Never Make
There are a few things as an amateur chemist that I won't make. Many of these are things that I probably could make, but in my mind, their production
is very hard to justify. These include:
1. Methylamine
Methylamine undoubtedly has its uses, but it has a definite stigma among non-chemists, and I don't have a use for it as a hobbyist.
2. Nitroethane
Nitroethane also has uses and carries much less of a stigma, but again, it's hard for me to justify making any.
3. Monohalogenated acetone derivatives, chloroacetone and bromoacetone.
While they are not DEA-listed chemicals, they seem to have few uses except as drug precursors. If you aren't making drugs with them, exactly what are
you doing?? "Your honor, I wasn't making any drugs; I was just experimenting with war gases." I mean sure, Nile Red made some chloroacetone in a
YouTube video, but he also destroyed it immediately.
4. Piperonal, safrole, and isosafrole.
These are also obvious drug precursors. I consider their manufacture from natural products to be rather easy and know where there's a big sassafras
grove where the spicebush swallowtails flit and flutter... but I am not very interested in methylenedioxy aromatics, though I've been invited to
testify on them to government commissions due to knowledge on the subject that is apparently uncommon (???).
5. Benzaldehyde, phenylacetic acid, benzyl cyanide, phenyl-2-propanone.
Also obvious drug precursors. Benzaldehyde is said to have a lot of uses and it smells delicious, but I'm not really sure what I would do with it, and
while there is some cool chemistry there, a lot of people have made it already.
6. Methamphetamine, MDMA, MDA, amphetamine, benzylpiperazine, PCP, opiates, cocaine, androgens, etc.
Seriously. It's not worth it.
One thing I *do* plan to make is phenylacetaldehyde. While it can be used as a drug precursor, that's extremely uncommon, and I like the way it
smells.
A couple of things I'm on the fence about include alkali cyanide salts, and benzyl chloride. Together these could be used as drug precursors, but
separately, they are very interesting compounds. I haven't made any, but the thought has certainly crossed my mind.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has an aversion to making certain chemicals. Is there anything you will never make?
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DraconicAcid
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I refuse to work with osmium.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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JJay
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One of my sisters did a dissertation on osmium... she was a lot more concerned about anhydrous hydrazine, but I understand that osmium compounds smell
awful and are extremely toxic.
My brother did one on selenium, which I guess also smells bad, although it's not really in the same ballpark.
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A Halogenated Substance
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How about organic peroxides? On nearly every thread I read about them, there is a reference to some unfortunate accident that occurred when someone
worked with them.
One reoccurring example I found was one involving someone with the username 'phone'. (>100g scale of AP?!)
I never attempted making organic peroxides before but the stories and warnings I've read on this forum ensures it'll stay that way.
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DJF90
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Not really sure what the point of this thread is?
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A Halogenated Substance
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Sorry, did I do something wrong? I thought of this as just adding to the list...
The beginning of the thread states that this is a list of things that was capable of being made by a home chemist but hard to justify the means of
actually making it.
Or did I get what you meant completely wrong as well?
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DJF90
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It seems to be a list of things that JJay feels the need to claim he'll never make. What thats got to do with anyone else, I'm not sure. Sure, some of
the later items on the list are explicitly illegal in most (all?) jurisdictions, but theres no need to villify the other potentially useful reagents
for the sake of a few ill-intentioned cooks.
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DraconicAcid
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Quote: Originally posted by DJF90  | | It seems to be a list of things that JJay feels the need to claim he'll never make. What thats got to do with anyone else, I'm not sure. Sure, some of
the later items on the list are explicitly illegal in most (all?) jurisdictions, but theres no need to villify the other potentially useful reagents
for the sake of a few ill-intentioned cooks. |
It's something interesting to discuss. Although it should really be in whimsy.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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JJay
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The original post is most definitely an invitation for discussion.
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DJF90
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Deleted my last post as I missed the last line of the OP. Sorry.
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JJay
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| Quote: Originally posted by A Halogenated Substance | How about organic peroxides? On nearly every thread I read about them, there is a reference to some unfortunate accident that occurred when someone
worked with them.
One reoccurring example I found was one involving someone with the username 'phone'. (>100g scale of AP?!)
I never attempted making organic peroxides before but the stories and warnings I've read on this forum ensures it'll stay that way.
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Lots of organic peroxides have uses. Some are dangerous. Peroxy acids look useful, certainly.
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Melgar
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I've made methylamine regularly, but only to test reducing agents with nitromethane. The reduction to the amine is very quick, and it's easy to smell
whether it was successful or not, without doing more extensive testing, and without any real risk of danger.
Nitroethane, I haven't needed for anything, and have no plans to make.
Chloroacetone, I accidentally made once, by acidifying a hypochlorite mixture that I'd planned to use to make chloroform. I don't ever intend to do
it again; it's a rather potent tear gas. Luckily, it doesn't have that tendency to linger, like benzyl chloride does.
I kind of want to make piperonal from catechol at some point. I made it once by ozonolysis of black pepper oil, and although it was too little to
quantify, it smelled amazing. Like maraschino cherries and vanilla. Safrole, I'm not interested in, except as a precursor to isosafrole, which I'm
only interested in because it's a precursor to piperonal. Making piperonal from safrole seems kind of dumb, except that it's so easy for me to get
sassafras essential oil, and that may actually be the easiest way to do it.
Benzaldehyde is almost essential if you're ever trying to reproduce the results of various papers. There are probably hundreds of papers out there
describing the selective oxidation of benzyl alcohol to benzaldehyde, and benzyl alcohol is very cheap.
I wouldn't mess around with acetone peroxide or anything of that nature, and nitroglycerin I made once, then diluted it and poured it down the drain
immediately after testing. I wouldn't do it again, when ETN is so much safer, and essentially the same reaction. I also wouldn't mess around with
mercury or lead, just because they're cumulative toxins. No matter how careful I am, labels can get erased from organic solvent spills, and vials
mixed up during a rush to move them away from unexpectedly vigorous reactions.
Of course, making illegal drugs is very illegal, and can get you years of prison time. However, during the several incidents where I was questioned
by police, they've actually been pretty understanding when I explained what I was doing, even though some of it could easily have been related to drug
chemistry (but wasn't). One time, I even had some ETN, and although they confiscated it, I wasn't charged with anything. In most cases, if you have
chemicals that can be used for something illegal, police still have to prove that you intended to use them for some illegal activity in order to
charge you with anything. There are very few chemicals that possession is all that's necessary to prove intent, and I think those are mostly just
ephedrine, pseudoephedrine, ergotamine, and possibly phenylacetone and derivatives. This may also vary by state, and between state and federal law
though.
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clearly_not_atara
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I will never synthesize calicheamicin.
I know this because the synthesis is very hard.
bis(chloromethyl)ether also makes the list because everyone who works with it gets cancer.
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JJay
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I've been known to mess around with mercury and lead, not to mention barium, but I keep the amounts small and avoid working with them when possible.
I was joking here when I was discussing how to make precursors out of illegal drugs, of course: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=73711
I know a lot of otherwise law-abiding people think that making MDMA is totally cool and hip and moral, but I don't look at it that way. ...and I'm
certainly not the one who asked gdflp for benzaldehyde, haha.
Most of the people who have real life knowledge of my chemistry activities are government officials, in particular, school board members and
legislators, some of whom could actually regulate them if they thought it appropriate. I did run into the chief of police the other day, who oddly
enough, was doing a traffic stop with a bunch of other cops, and he said hi. I also know the local SAIC, although he and I have never discussed
anything chemistry related.
The advice I generally get from government officials is something like: "Don't make any illegal drugs. Don't make any large bombs."
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ninhydric1
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I'll never work with organometallic methyl compounds. Just the thought of it kills me. I'll probably never work with cadmium or mercury, but that
might change with mercury since it is an interesting element.
[Edited on 5-2-2017 by ninhydric1]
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Praxichys
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I don't think there is anything I would flat-out refuse to work with. It's not really a matter of how dangerous a compound is, but the effectiveness
of your safety measures.
Obviously for legal reasons I'm not going to have any scheduled or prescription-only compounds laying about. However, I have no issues with precursors
that have other uses like benzaldehyde, methylamine, red P, HI, iodine, 1,4-butanediol, piperidine, NaBH4, lithium, etc. (In fact, I have most of
those already.)
Having a bunch of pseudoephedrine or helional laying around is a dumb idea though. Not saying I'd strictly never deal with them but I can't see what
use they might have other than certain scheduled drugs (and I'm sure law enforcement would agree).
[Edited on 2-5-2017 by Praxichys]
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unionised
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... friends with Donald Trump.
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Magpie
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I will never attempt a Wittig reaction using triphenylphosphine.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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mayko
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Why is that? I have been given that very task at work. 
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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unionised
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That might be the most useful aspect of this thread.
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Magpie
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Triphenylphosphine (TPP) is incredibly poisonous. An instructor told us a story of when he was in grad school someone was doing this reaction using a
vacuum line. The line developed a leak. The chemist ended up in the hospital for 6 months recovering from TPP poisoning.
Mayko I hope you are not serious.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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unionised
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No
Triphenyl phosphine is not spectacularly toxic.
It's also not a gas.
Phosphine , is nasty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphine#Toxicity
Is that what you meant?
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Magpie
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I agree that handling phosphine would be a greater hazard but with a good hood it would be manageable. I don't know the details of my instructor's
anecdote. I imagine the TPP was dissolved in a solvent, perhaps ether.
I suppose these Wittig reactions are done all the time in professional labs. I can really only say that I won't be attempting this at home.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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AvBaeyer
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Magpie,
Triphenylphosphine is perfectly ok to handle. I use it quite frequently in my home lab to make stabilized Wittig reagents for synthesis. You
instructor probably mixed up triphenylphosphine with phosphine as noted above. Phosphine is not something to play around with hood or no hood.
AvB
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JJay
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I'm kind of leaning against ever making phosgene, but it looks both more useful and easier to make than oxalyl chloride.
I'd say that nickel carbonyl is on the list of things to avoid making.
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