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Dr.Freemanstein
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Splitting Water
Has anyone ever experimented with producing Orth/Parahydrogen??
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unionised
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Rather a challenge for the amateur experimentor. Come to think of it, I don't think we have the kit to play with those at work and that's a
new multi-million pound laboratory. I'm not saying that it would cost millions, just that the kit is a bit speciallist.
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Dr.Freemanstein
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On the contrary, with just basic materials and some test equipment. It can be done in any garage,shop,basement....hell you could even do it in your
kitchen!!!
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solo
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Ok, you got my attention , please details , articles some first hand experience and the pit falls..........oh the most important , how much energy
will I gain from this experiment.............solo
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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Dr.Freemanstein
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I am currently WIP on this experiment in my own lab, but i am going by others past experience. It works by oscillating two concentric electrodes in
water with a sqaure waveform. This in a sence, creates a tuning fork effect, and facilitates molecular breakdown of the water.
This produces oxygen and ortho-hydrogen.
With the addidition of a toroidal electrode in the reactor, also oscillated with a different frequency, oxygen and para-hydrogen can be generated.
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12AX7
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Wouldn't that kinda have to be in the microwave (or higher) region?
Tim
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"It works by oscillating two concentric electrodes in water with a sqaure waveform. This in a sence, creates a tuning fork effect, and
facilitates molecular breakdown of the water.
This produces oxygen and ortho-hydrogen.
With the addidition of a toroidal electrode in the reactor, also oscillated with a different frequency, oxygen and para-hydrogen can be
generated."
Is it just me or is that complete bollocks?
Even if it worked (and it won't) How long would any para or ortho H2 last before re-equilibrating to the equilibrium mixture?
I smell a troll.
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Organikum
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Using an axe would be more feasible than this bullshit.
/ORG
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unionised
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I think his next attempt will use lasers and really powerful magnet, but the important thing will be that it spins.
As an aside, how would you know if it had worked? Kitchen based science to meausure o/p ratios in hydrogen would be pretty tricky too.
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Scoff if u wish, but
1. It would not have to involve microwaves, just a basic ic generated waveform.
2. If its gonna be used, who cares if its stable, burning the hyro/oxygen would recombine it anyway.
3. Who cares about measuring how much is produced, it would be burnt soon enough (anyway in a sealed reactor environment, a pressure guage would
suffice!)
4. I am not in any way troll like.
5. This is not complete bollocks
6. I thought a forum such as this would be home to open-minded enlightened people. It might as well be the f***ing VATICAN!!!!
Anyway....you can scoff, but this experiment can work, will work, and HAS worked. What do u think Honda have fitted to their new concept car?????
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12AX7
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So what is the chemical difference between ortho- and para-hydrogen and why would electrolysis yield one over the other under any particular
conditions?
Tim
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Ortho/Para Hydrogen are different isomers of hydrogen. In Ortho, the two nuclei spin parallel, in Para, they spin anti-parallel. That much i do know.
All i know regarding how, is that the oscillation causes a molecular breakdown from H2O to 2H2 + O2
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Dr.Freemanstein
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The different yeild is something to do with the initially liberated orthohydrogen, being oscillated a second time by a different frequency. I guess
altering thespin of the nuclei
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Heres the beauty part....this system (being self pressurising) will yeild enough of the stuff, off 12v DC, to run your car!!! With very little
modification!!!
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Lambda
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Reliable sources required
Dear Dr.Freemanstein, this is a forum of open-minded enlightened people !
(Reff.: Dr. Freemanstein posted on 25-7-2005 at 10:40 PM, remark 6).
It would be very much appreciated, if you will be so kind as to advise us on any good information you may know of in the form of literature, patents
and websites.
Remark:
Normal hydrogen at room temperature contains 25% of the para form and 75% of the ortho form. The ortho form cannot be prepared in the pure state.
Since the two forms differ in energy, the physical properties also differ. The melting and boiling points of parahydrogen are about 0.1 degrees C
lower than those of normal hydrogen.
Producing ortho para hydrogen (pdf-file):
http://fermi.uchicago.edu/publications/PDF/oka203.pdf
Patents - The Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Technology:
http://www.h2fc.com/technology/patents/other.shtml
[Edited on 26-7-2005 by Lambda]
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Thank you Lambda for the tip, i was a bit hasty with my unsubstantiated claims.
My first interest in this experiment, was not the para/ortho reaction itself, but the efficient extraction of combustable gas from water. I first
found a file outlining a device that would run any i.c engine on tapwater! Needless to say, i was a little apprehensive, but i did some research and
found a U.S patent with the very same device, the focus of which was the production of ortho/para hydrogen, but it did make mention of the
applications of such an experiment.
I have attached these two PDF's for you all to peruse.
Any constructive input on this experiment would be most appreciated
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Well....i would include the files IF it would let me upload them!
It keeps saying the attachment is too big!!! And i've tried compressing them aswell!!!
Any ideas??
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neutrino
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Put them up on rapidshare
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Thanx neutrino
here's the links everybody
http://rapidshare.de/files/3385716/_free_energy_fuel_from_wa...
http://rapidshare.de/files/2641939/How_to_Convert_your_Car_t...
once again...thank-you!
i did'nt know such a fantastic service existed!
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Dr.Freemanstein
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actually....don't try these links!!!
i just tried to test the downloads and it asked me to wait an hour!!!
bad service, nasty service, in your bed!!!!
if you want the files, drop me a line
and i'll e-mail them to you...it would probably be quicker
dr.freemanstein@tesco.net
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Twospoons
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That second pdf is bullshit. It implies you can run your car forever on a tank of water. Sorry, but no. If this really worked I don't think
billions of dollars would be being invested in ITER, the fusion research project.
Improved electrolysis efficiency may be possible (classical electrolysis is roughly 50% IIRC) - but not 'over-unity'.
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Lambda
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How to make cheap Hydrogen gas
Personly, I think that the future lies in the classical electrolysis, biosynthesis, nuclear fusion technology and catalytically introduced breakdown
of steam to form Hydrogen gas.
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unionised
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"3. Who cares about measuring how much is produced, it would be burnt soon enough (anyway in a sealed reactor environment, a pressure guage would
suffice!)
"
Anyone who wan't to prove that it's really para hydrogen rather than the normal 3 :1 mixture would need to measure some parameter that
depends on the o/p isomer ratio.
Let's see you do that with a pressure gauge.
Since both the files you posted seem (from the titles) to be at odds with the conservation of energy and you have provided neither experimental
results nor a competent theoretical explanation of your assertion, I still think it's bollocks.
Classical electrolysis often aproaches 100% efficiency- so there's not much scope for improvement.
Just because an idea is patented does not mean it works.
The Patent Office is not a testing house.
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Quibbler
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ortho/para hydrogen are properties of the nucleus. Breaking water into H2 and O2 is about electrons. The nucleus has nothing to do with the bonds in
water. As ever you will only get out as much energy reforming the bonds as you put breaking them. I'm sure you could find an article about
running your car on zero point energy - and that would be bollocks as well.
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Dr.Freemanstein
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Why i am i talking to you guys at length about this anyway???
I guessed from the start that you are all problematic of science these days anyway!
Proof, proof, proof, proof, measure, measure, measure!
Has anyone got an imagination behind their sliderule???
I'm out of here and never frequenting this bullshit board again
Fuck-you and goodnight
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