aopekun
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 2-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Silver nitrate as the ultimate catalyst
After 35 years, I am a bit rusty on my organic chemistry.
I note that heating sugars (1900C + ) with a propane torch, in the presence of silver nitrate catalyst, APPEARS to drive the reaction to complete
oxidation of the carbons to carbon dioxide SUCH THAT 13C-glucose yields 13CO2 X6. Is there a name or a citation of this simple and fundamental
reaction?
I suspect the carbon went to formaldehyde then CO2.
Please help?
Norwalk@bcm.edu
|
|
|
CharlieA
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 11-8-2015
Location: Missouri, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm thinking that you don't need any catalyst to decompose sugars to CO2 and water, especially at 1900*C!
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2734
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I suspect that the reaction was not done in the presence of air, so rather than combustion, it would be a pyrotechnic type formula, with sugar as the
fuel, and nitrate as the oxidant. That should produce C13 labelled CO2, with H2O and some CO if not enough nitrate is used. But I would suspect
that any nitrate will also work, silver may be cleaner or more controlled. If you are not careful, your reaction could explode as well, since you
are heating a fuel/oxidant mixture, not much unlike black powder or a colored flare.
|
|
|
Nicodem
|
Thread Moved
3-1-2016 at 01:19 |
morsagh
Hazard to Others
Posts: 187
Registered: 20-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I tried to combust silver nitrate with sugar (i know such a waste), i used normal lighter, flame was white and nearly no carbon left so i don´t think
it is talked about normal oxidation. But are nitrates at 1900 degrees?
|
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
I'd be very surprised to see a propane torch that can manage 1900 C...
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
An oddly stated question. What are you trying to do here, exactly? And what a waste of Silver nitrate- Sugar and the resulting charcoal both burn
just fine in plain old air, use some chlorate if you'd like it go faster?
If you use an acetylene/oxygen type torch body, fed with propane and compressed air- Yes, optimal conditions COULD produce 1,900 C If you were doing
things like pre heating the feed gasses and running the flame in a reverb chamber, preventing various types of heat loss... Not just burning a torch
in open air.
But the small home use type torches with a Venturi effect for mixing in atmospheric air- No. Around 1,100 C absolute tops. Propane and pure O2 is good
for a lot of high temperature operations, brazing and heating. 2,800 C or so is achievable, without all that N2 baggage in air to chill the flame.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
