bogumil
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Problems with Extraction
Hi, im new to the forum.
I have a question. ive done some search but couldnt really find an answer.
For scientific interest only, i try to extract morphine from poppy straw. i do it the following: The straw is grinded and 20gr are added to 200 ml of
Ca(OH)2. the mix is heated at 70 C for 90 minutes. The process is repeated 2 more times with the used material and half the amount of liquid. then the
ph is dropped to 6.2 with citric acid or vitamin c (ascorbin acid). ammonium chloride is added under mild heat. after 8 hours the liquid is filtered.
the filtrated liquids pH is raised to 11.5 with KOH. after 24 hours it is filtered. the problem is that nothing stays in the filter. why could that
be? i was wondering, if
a) the concentration of the liquid is to low
b) the chemicals especially the KOH are destroying some of the desired product.
additional questions:
1. when the pH of the extracted alkaloids-solution is lowered to 6.1 with citric acid always some clear krystalls precipitate out at the sides of the
glass. this shouldnt be morphine, or? i know it is soluable in basic H2O. does that mean that at 6.1 it already precipitates out? i dont believe that.
2. Do you think, a "rcentrifugator" would help in th elast step, when the precipitated morphine has to be collected on the bottom of the
jar?
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HNO3
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Next up- For theoretical interest only, How sould I, with OTC chemicals, Blow up all of Europe...
Or maybe make Methamphetazide (I know that isn't the drup, but It might be
a nice explosive...)
\"In the beginning, God...\" Wait a minute, God doesn\'t exist!!!!!!!!!! \"OK, in the beginning, ummm, hydrogen...\" Wait a minute, what about the
laws of thermodynamics? \"OK, in the beginning, ummm.....UMMMMM, what\'s left to choose from?
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bogumil
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Did you make a joke? i think so but im not sure ... what did i do wrong? If i knew what OTC is, i knew it, but my knowledge ends far ealier 
[Edited on 15-2-2005 by bogumil]
[Edited on 15-2-2005 by bogumil]
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vulture
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[Automated Sarcasm Translator]
What he's trying to say is that 20gr is a bit much if it's only for scientific interest and that morphine has already been studied ad
nauseam for scientific purposes (addiction treatment, etc).
OTC = Over The Counter
[Edited on 15-2-2005 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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chloric1
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Are you serious?
Do you really want to play with this? I had been treated with morphine and its great for pain but it causes side effects. The minor effect would be
a monster case of constipation. The major one would be respiratory failure do to overdose! People slowly suffocate in their drug induced sleep quite
often in hospitals. And these people supposedly know what they are doing! If you screw up you may NEVER wake up. Before you even think about
extracting READ, READ, and then read again.
This has been a friendly safety reminder from the kewl patrol.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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Darkfire
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On the topic of extractions, how can i extract melatonin from the pills?
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
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Blind Angel
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Cold Water (like in Codeine pill with AAS or Acetaminophen)
Or Maybe a Simple A/B i do it a lot with DXM which is very close and i get very good result, I now do it for all the family since orange juice is way
better to the taste than grape syrup who stay in the throat.
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
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bogumil
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Duh... I just got it, that you thought Id like to produce 20 gr. of Morphine. No Way! lol. I want to start with 20 gram of straw. What do you think
about this:
Needed: ether, caustic soda, HCl, distilled H2O, Filter, sep funnel
Morphine is a tertiary amine.
The solubility of the free base in water is 0,2 g/L. The solubilty of Morphine hydrochloride 57 g/L.
1. Opium is shaked in a 01 -1 M HCl solution and Ether.
[ That is an aquoeus solution with HCl (0.1 - 1 %). The morphine hydrochloride goes over into the aqueous phase (because of the HCl, which takes
everything that can be made a salt), while non-basic components go over into the etherphase. ]
2. The aqueous excerpt is then neutralised with caustic soda solution. By doing this the Morphinehydrochloride becomes less soluable in water again
because of the pH. This way the morphine free base crystallizes out.
3. This precipitate is filtered out of the solution with a fine Buchner funnel and mild vacuum.
If one adjusts it for poppy straw one would have to get "opium" from the straw first:
Before the shaking in ether and dilutet HCl one would just have to make an alcoholic extract from the straw. Preferred is methanol I guess, but
ethanol works as well (one can just run an extra extraction with the used material)
I guess that this method isnt found in patents because they usually go for industrial production and because of this look for the cheapest and less
dangerous way (ether is extremely flammable)
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kyanite
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Opiates are decomposed by heat, so maybe holding it at 70 degrees for 2 hours and "mild" heat for a while isn't a good idea.
Also, people who drink "poppy tea" say to steep, not boil the brew, probably for the same reason.
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Quince
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I tried poppy tea once...it does help you sleep, but tastes worse than Buckley's cough syrup. Stick with the melatonin.
kyanite, regarding your signature: I'm a UBC student, and I'd not put much stock into a quote by some wacky UBC professor.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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kyanite
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Heh, I never really looked into this prof's credibility, or know much about the people at UBC, but I'll take your word for it 
By the way, how bad is the taste of poppy tea? Is it worse than chewing a Tylenol? (disgusting!)
Also, oddly enough, Buckley's doesn't really taste that bad to me, just reminds me of Vicks. I think I'm immune to it, from the massive
amounts I used when I was little
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Quince
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I'd rather have 50 Fisherman's Friends stuffed in my mouth.
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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chochu3
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caustic soda is to strong of a base to extract morphine you need a weaker base. Heat will also cause morphine to decompose. Look into Rhodiums files
somewhere on the net for more info.
\"Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind.\" -
Katha Upanishad
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Quince
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Won't this procedure extract other bad stuff along with the morphine?
I think I'll stick with aspirin. And all you Tylenol (or other acetaminophens) people are fucking up your livers.
[Edited on 29-4-2005 by Quince]
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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sparkgap
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I just knew someone would try to steer this conversation to paracetamol toxicity.
FYI, acetaminophen only becomes hepatotoxic when taken too much and too frequently, due to it being metabolized to a liver-scarring quinone
intermediate. This unfortunate side effect is potentiated by alcohol (so don't you be taking Tylenol for your hangovers!)
Back on topic: poppies are swimming in alkaloids (morphine and ilk, papaverine, noscapine), so yes, a base extraction should pull them all out. IIRC,
however, morphine's pKa is sufficiently distant from the other alkaloids to allow it to be acid extracted away. Can someone please confirm?
sparky (^_^)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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unionised
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Morphine is an acid, albeit a weak one. It can be seperated from most of the other alkalods using this property.
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tom haggen
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I'm drunk so here it goes. This is a piece of shit thread so why not post some jargon. Anyway, a little history on morphine says that heroin was
supposedly the cure for morphine addiction. I just find it amazing that salicyclic acid to aspirin is the same as morphine to heroin. I just can’t
get over it
[Edited on 1-5-2005 by tom haggen]
N/A
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sparkgap
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"...heroin was supposedly the cure for morphine addiction..."
Bayer must still be kicking itself in its ass to this very day... 
"...amazing that salicylic acid to aspirin is the same as morphine to heroin..."
The wonders of acetic anhydride, 'no? 
sparky (~_~)
P.S. You're drunk? You don't say...
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Quince
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Quince
I'd rather have 50 Fisherman's Friends stuffed in my mouth. |
Oops, I don't think that came out quite right...
\"One of the surest signs of Conrad\'s genius is that women dislike his books.\" --George Orwell
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