| Pages:
1
2 |
ave369
Eastern European Lady of Mad Science
Posts: 596
Registered: 8-7-2015
Location: No Location
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Overrun with sal mirabilis!
Here in my lab, I'm wading knee deep in sodium sulfate. I get this as a side product when I extract NaOH from a dry alkaline drain cleaner. Lots of
sal mirabilis. Metric craptons of sal mirabilis. And I don't know what to do with it.
Okay, I can:
* Make alums;
* Dehydrate the salt by calcining and use it as a desiccant;
* Convert it to bisulfate and use that for making oleum;
Who knows what else one can do with sodium sulfate?
Smells like ammonia....
|
|
|
kecskesajt
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Take it,if you cant take a dump.
Seriusly, there arent a lot of things this is useful.
Maybe you can convert it into NaOH by Ca(OH)2.
|
|
|
Amos
International Hazard
Posts: 1406
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline
Mood: No
|
|
^Seriously I don't know why that guy even posts
But about the sodium sulfate, if you have an impressive enough heat source, you can try carbothermal reduction with charcoal to yield sodium sulfide,
which can be quite useful. Apart from that, you can just dry it and use it as a desiccant.
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
I use small amounts of Na2SO4 to dry organic liquids.
Making NaHSO4 sounds like a good idea. Use it for the following:
1) Use for oleum, as you say.
2) I use it for making gaseous HCl: NaHSO4 + NaCl + heat = a controlled source of HCl gas.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
If it's pure enough, just bag it and sell it or trade it for other chems..........................?
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Good thinking CJ.
Skip the 'pure enough' part and sell slightly bigger quantities for slightly less $ and corner the market.
| Quote: | | Seriously I don't know why that guy even posts |
What's THAT about Amos ?
kecskesajt probably posts for the same reasons the rest of Us do, and has the extra difficulty of translating from English to
Hungarian and back again.
[Edited on 29-8-2015 by aga]
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1381
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
You could use it to store quite large amounts of heat. For instance, to heat your house overnight with solar power collected during the day.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
ave369
Eastern European Lady of Mad Science
Posts: 596
Registered: 8-7-2015
Location: No Location
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Solar power? What's that? My house is heated with firewood.
Smells like ammonia....
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by aga  | Good thinking CJ.
Skip the 'pure enough' part and sell slightly bigger quantities for slightly less $ and corner the market.
| Quote: | | Seriously I don't know why that guy even posts |
What's THAT about Amos ?
kecskesajt probably posts for the same reasons the rest of Us do, and has the extra difficulty of translating from English to
Hungarian and back again.
[Edited on 29-8-2015 by aga] |
Na2SO4 used to be used as a laxative if anyone was confused by his original post
[Edited on 29-8-2015 by Corrosive Joeseph]
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Still is sold as a laxative.
Isn't called 'Miracle Salt' for nothing 
The marketing should be updated for modern terminology.
"Sodium Sulphate Tablets : the biggest and best Download you'll ever have."
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
Ooooooohh, l just just learned something new while pissing myself laughing...................
Thanks for the 'enlightenment'!!
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
(message deleted for being far too crude)
[Edited on 30-8-2015 by aga]
|
|
|
papaya
National Hazard
Posts: 615
Registered: 4-4-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: reactive
|
|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know that salt can be used as a water softener, isn't it what is added to washing powders for the same
reason? Also, how did you separate NaOH from there and what kind of drain cleaner is it that contains sulfate - what for?
|
|
|
ave369
Eastern European Lady of Mad Science
Posts: 596
Registered: 8-7-2015
Location: No Location
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
papaya, in my country there is a drain cleaner brand "KROT", the ingredients are NaOH and Na2SO4. The separation is very simple: it is physical. NaOH
is in granules, Na2SO4 is in small crystals. Dry gauze cloth does the trick.
Smells like ammonia....
|
|
|
kecskesajt
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 7-12-2014
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
O ja piergole,I'm not a native American, nor speak Native American.
Speaking Hungarian is easy.Speaking properly is not. Some adults have problem with it. Another lang. and everything is screwed up in your brain.
Take a look at it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language#Grammar
eltöredezettségmentesítőtleníttethetetlenségtelenítőtlenkedhetnétek <--Thats one word(Tried myself to pronounce, failed)
megszentségteleníthetetlenségeskedéseitekért <--- Thats another word
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5134
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Recrystallise it as the decahydrate and use to to check your thermometers.
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/jres/086/jresv86n2p181_A1b....
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
Ahahaha
You must have had a good night if you are retracting things the next morning!! LOL
It wasn't 'far too crude' by any means. Sci Mad would be just WAY too serious without aga. 
EDIT: Forgot the smiley
[Edited on 30-8-2015 by Corrosive Joeseph]
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
pneumatician
Hazard to Others
Posts: 412
Registered: 27-5-2013
Location: Magonia
Member Is Offline
Mood: ■■■■■■■■■■ INRI ■■■■■■■■■■ ** Igne Natura Renovatur Integra **
|
|
do nothing, your next process maybe need this "Lots of sal mirabilis. Metric craptons of sal mirabilis.", so store in a right container and place and
or not, sell it.
the most wise is before start something have an idea of bi-products undesirable and their management.
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2171
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
One method of recycling sodium sulfate is to electrolyze it to produce sodium hydroxide and sulfuric acid. This is important in the paper industry
which generates it by the kiloton. It requires a membrane cell similar to a chlor-alkali cell but works best with a modified membrane. Three
compartment cells are also used which produce a more pure product.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...
|
|
|
papaya
National Hazard
Posts: 615
Registered: 4-4-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: reactive
|
|
You could try to use sulfate for salting out several organic solvents from their mixtures with water like alcohol/H2O , acetone/H2O (in case you make
your own alcohol or such), however I don't know how effective it is.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Here is an equation (see https://books.google.com/books?id=GukWyQnHW6wC&pg=PA479&...) that suggests to me a possible path to bisulfate by taking heated Na2SO4 and
treat with steam and chlorine:
Na2SO4 + Cl2 + H2O = NaHSO4 + HOCl + NaCl
The volatile Hypochlorous can be evaporated off (with some gaseous Cl2O) leaving an ionic (from the added NaCl) Sodium bisulfate fit to use as a
toilet bowl cleaner (like the once known product called Vanish, please see this interesting list of ingredients at http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/brand... ) for sale or personal use.
In my opinion, the reaction is likely reversal as:
H+ + Cl- + HOCl ---) Cl2 + H2O
so reaction conditions/mechanics could impact yield.
An alternate preparation would be to place Na2SO4 in chlorine water in a sealed vessel in sunlight with periodic shaking. The photo decomposition of
the hypochlorous acid forms HCl (along with oxygen gas and possibly some HClO3 as well) that could react with more Na2SO4 to produce the desired
NaHSO4/NaCl on evaporation with a touch of chlorate.
[Edited on 5-9-2015 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Little_Ghost_again
National Hazard
Posts: 985
Registered: 16-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baffled
|
|
Just a thought
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US3134729
Dont ask me, I only know enough to be dangerous
|
|
|
ave369
Eastern European Lady of Mad Science
Posts: 596
Registered: 8-7-2015
Location: No Location
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm just boiling it with conc sulfuric. It dissolves and turns into an easily melting salt that has to be bisulfate.
Smells like ammonia....
|
|
|
Little_Ghost_again
National Hazard
Posts: 985
Registered: 16-9-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Baffled
|
|
I just thought it might be useful to someone in the future, some seem to like the this kinda thing 
[Edited on 5-9-2015 by Little_Ghost_again]
Dont ask me, I only know enough to be dangerous
|
|
|
macckone
Dispenser of practical lab wisdom
Posts: 2171
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Excellent patent and doable if you have access to a lot of mercury.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
