nuchem
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 20-7-2015
Location: Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I need some clarification on the Texas DPS glassware permit...
So recently, I have decided that I do not want to roll around in the middle of the night wondering if I am going to be raided or not. I have not done
anything illegal, but there is still that thought in the back of my mind, that "what if." So, I have decided to apply for the lab glassware permit.
While I was going through it I noticed that the main brunt of the application was suited for "Business." I do not own a business, I am a simple hobby
chemist...
Here is the link to the actual application
http://dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/NAR-121.pdf
Does anyone know if there is a separate application for the individual? Or is there just some fancy way that I need to fill this thing out?
(P.S. I have looked at the other post regarding this question, I did not find anything that directly addresses it.)
|
|
|
annaandherdad
Hazard to Others
Posts: 387
Registered: 17-9-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The list is interesting. The amateur chemist wouldn't need most of the restricted chemicals, but the equipment restrictions are ridiculous. I'm
reminded of the fact that possessing burglar tools is illegal (never mind whether you use them), unless you're a certified locksmith or something.
The impending regulations in the EU are worse IMHO. Dealing with a faceless bureaucracy doesn't give you any advantages. As for applications for an
individual, can you just ask them? I'd also ask them if there is an avenue for appeal. If you're turned down you might have some success with legal
help (expensive, I know). Unfortunately amateur chemistry doesn't have much political power (ie no one cares). Good luck.
Any other SF Bay chemists?
|
|
|
WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
Mood: Outline
|
|
You are looking for the NAR-120, not the NAR-121.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/internetforms/AlphaListing/N.aspx
From those I've checked with, DPS will send an officer out to the address listed on the form, but this should be a friendly visit.
Keep your lab space separate from everything else (outbuilding or outside is best, I think) and organized. That way you're not inviting them inside
your home. Have an idea of what types of (simple and boring) reactions you want to try, and be prepared to explain them a little. If you're storing
some flammable solvents or strong acids, store them somewhere else before the visit. Whatever you have there, make sure it's stored properly.
Report back with your experiences!
|
|
|
nuchem
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 20-7-2015
Location: Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
@WTGR
My main concern is that I live in a residential area, and I do not know if that will have any effect on the application process. I have looked for
local city laws on this kind of stuff, but I could not find any. Also my lab is in my garage...
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4581
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
I considered applying for the permit a while back, but I decided not to, because I feel like it will just draw unnecessary attention to me. I feel
like since I am a minor and I don't own any of the chemicals on the list, only glassware, and keep a detailed lab notebook documenting my experiments,
they would turn a blind eye to me. The law is there to make it easier to convict known meth cooks. It has never been used in the history of its
existence to charge anyone who wasn't doing anything really wrong. I'm not saying it's not a stupid law, just that I don't think it's something we
need to worry about. Hell, the average cop probably doesn't even know the law exists.
Though, I would be interested to see how it goes for you if you try to get the permit.
|
|
|
WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
Mood: Outline
|
|
Texas is a strong homeschooling state, and it's normal in those circles to buy chemistry lab ware for home use. The NAR-120 is the state's way of
acknowledging that individuals have legitimate reasons to purchase and use chemistry glassware in the home. I think the permit itself is free; it's
just to make sure that you're not a meth-head.
If you really want to, you could ask your local fire department about chemical storage requirements as a hobby chemist. It would be a good idea
anyway if you plan on storing significant quantities of hazardous materials. If you're working in your garage, though, I'd recommend keeping
everything on the very small scale. It might sound like a hassle, but you don't want a gallon of acetone in your garage if your house catches fire,
for example.
I mention storage, because that is one thing that the officer may make note of when checking your work area. Use common sense. You want the visit to
be a routine, quick, in-and-out affair. Don't try to impress the officer with your knowledge about war gasses, or come across as paranoid. Don't
show off your 5 gallon container of red fuming nitric acid. If the officer walks into your living room, and your brother is sitting there in his
underwear smoking weed, there will be problems. Every unnecessary thing that you bring into the situation, even if fairly innocuous, is something the
officer will feel obligated to address. It's human nature.
Assuming that you're a normal kid who wants to purify antifreeze by distillation, or some other simple (hint, hint) thing, don't worry. If your
parents support your hobby, and offer to keep an eye on you, then this looks even better.
Of course, none of this should be construed as legal advice, and these are only my own rather poorly researched opinions. Your mileage may vary.
|
|
|
Brom
Hazard to Self
Posts: 94
Registered: 19-7-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I live in south Texas and have researched the laws carefully as well as spoke to my local police chief. The deal about tx is that you need the permit
to buy and sell restricted items purchased in state. There is no law on possession of restricted items only transfer of said items. I bought my
equipment online from out of state and its no problem. So unless you plan on starting a business selling the restricted items to other Texans the
license is needless.
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4581
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Well, permits and stuff aside, it's nice to see a couple new members from Texas here. 
|
|
|
Cou
National Hazard
Posts: 958
Registered: 16-5-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad Scientist
|
|
I recommend not getting the glassware permit if you are residential, not a business owner. Big businesses can afford to handle bureaucratic
nightmares, not you.
Really never a good idea to get involved with governmental organizations. You never know what could happen; during one of the routine checks from the
state pigs, you could be breaking a law you don't even know about. Poured some acid into the ground? Improper disposal, and you're screwed. You could
lose your house insurance. You could get on the no-fly list. If something unusual happens near you, such as a gas leak or explosion, you will be one
of the first suspects.
It's better to just stay out of the radar with home chemistry. There are so many rules and regulations involving storage and disposal that you don't
even know exist.
Option 1: Best option would be to find a chemistry store outside of texas and buy glassware there. The law is for transfer in texas, not possession.
Option 2: If you're willing to take the risk, use an anonymous laptop in public wifi to find local glassware on ebay/craigslist for pickup in person.
I believe you can also anonymously get a P.O. box, and when big packages are shipped to it, you pick them up at the post office.
Option 3: Instead of getting the permit for glassware, you can make your own chemistry equipment from OTC materials. Here's a distiller tutorial made
by Nile Red: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2DfCr2Qsx0
[Edited on 13-9-2015 by Cou]
|
|
|
JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
Member Is Offline
|
|
It is worth noting that Nile Red is using the distiller for purposes that would be illegal in the United States though legal in many other places.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
