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ChrisJ
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Did some more tests, apparently baking soda is a joke when it comes to pH?
Best I can tell, the stuff turns purple when the pH is an 8 or 9. At 7 it was still blue and the only way I could test this was backwards so far,
kept adding vinegar until it turned blue while checking the pH occasionally.
Adding more of the tablet will bring it back to purple, but it ends up darker as well, I assume due t more of the pH indicator being added?
If I buy some ammonia, will that be what I need to confirm this?
Also took a picture of the tablets in their natural form.
[Edited on 1-10-2015 by ChrisJ]
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feacetech
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dish wash powder has caustic
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aga
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... Caustic Soda, aka Sodium Hydroxide = powerful Base.
Edit:
put the jug on a sheet of White paper - the liquid colour in the photos will be clearer !
[Edited on 10-1-2015 by aga]
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ChrisJ
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Quote: Originally posted by aga  | ... Caustic Soda, aka Sodium Hydroxide = powerful Base.
Edit:
put the jug on a sheet of White paper - the liquid colour in the photos will be clearer !
[Edited on 10-1-2015 by aga] |
Sorry, I didn't see your request before doing this test.
Using ammonia worked. I guess this means it's without a doubt a pH indicator?
The pictures in order are.
Before adding vinegar
After adding vinegar
After adding a little ammonia
After adding more ammonia.
Adding more ammonia made the color more vivid but not darker. I'm curious though, if adding these tablets "until the water turns violet". If you
have a low pH, you would have to add more tablets but you would also be adding more of the chemicals that cause foaming. Isn't this a problem?
   
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aga
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You got it !
Your experiment proves it.
Clearly a pH indicator is One component of the tablets.
The colours are pretty much what you see with red cabbage juice.
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feacetech
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some of the other all in one treatment suggest that if treatment reserves are low, slowly adding small amounts of treatment over time (weeks) if large
slug doses cause foaming.
But now you also know that you cant rely on the colour alone
Imagine your water was exceptionally Hard, you could quickly consume your phosphate reserves but the alkalinity of your system maybe fine, you may get
caught thinking all is pink no worries!
[Edited on 10-1-2015 by feacetech]
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ChrisJ
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| Quote: Originally posted by feacetech | some of the other all in one treatment suggest that if treatment reserves are low, slowly adding small amounts of treatment over time (weeks) if large
slug doses cause foaming.
But now you also know that you cant rely on the colour alone
Imagine your water was exceptionally Hard, you could quickly consume your phosphate reserves but the alkalinity of your system maybe fine, you may get
caught thinking all is pink no worries!
[Edited on 10-1-2015 by feacetech] |
What consumes the sodium nitrite? I'm going to assume oxygen?
So, sodium nitrite, does it prevent corrosion because it's an oxygen scavenger, or is it a totally separate thing?
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feacetech
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technically its a better metal passivator. It will consume some oxygen but nothing like a dedicated oxygen scavenger
it will be consumed by metal in the system and some O2
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ChrisJ
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| Quote: Originally posted by feacetech | technically its a better metal passivator. It will consume some oxygen but nothing like a dedicated oxygen scavenger
it will be consumed by metal in the system and some O2 |
So,
If I buy this, would it work in addition to what I'm already using?
10 lb Pail of Sodium Nitrite Food Grade 99+% Pure Granular Free Flowing Food Processing & Manufacturing
http://www.amazon.com/Nitrite-Granular-Flowing-Processing-Ma...
Or, in your opinion would I be better off getting rid of the Steamaster and switching to this as a corrosion inhibitor and oxygen scavenger?
Photographers' Formulary 10-1341 Sodium Sulfite - Anhydrous. 5-pounds
http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Formulary-10-1341-Sodium...
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gdflp
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I can't answer your question, but sodium nitrite from the same seller can be found directly on their
website at a slightly lower cost here. I've ordered from Duda Diesel multiple times and never had an issue.
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ChrisJ
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| Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | I haven't been keeping up with this thread, so I can't answer your question, but sodium nitrite from the same seller can be found directly on their
website at a slightly lower cost here. I've ordered from Duda Diesel multiple times and never had an issue. |
Appreciate the tip, thanks!
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feacetech
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I would add sodium sulphite as well as your tablets. Unlike Nirtite Sulphite only scvanges oxygen, but it does a better job reacts much faster the
downside being no metal passivation.
If you can find catalysed sulphite that would be better, it increases the reaction rate signifcantly.
if you cant get catalysed sulphite i would run a reserve of 30-50 ppm sulphite. this maybe difficult to maintain in a small system testing would be
the only way to get an idea of how much to add and how fast it is consumed.
be aware sulphite will rasie tds and once you reach 2000 ppm (conductivty in uS/cm * 2/3) i would blow down and make up untill it got lower. This wont
be as bad as the TDS from the concentrated water but its good to keep it down.
Remeber if you pre boil (10-15mins) and treat your makeup before adding this will help.
I would find out from the supplier what ideal nitrite levels are, also monitor these levels.
I would consider changing treatment if you have steam side issues (corrosion, Acidic condensate, Fe in condensate) and find one with a volatile steam
treatment included. The makers of your tablets have another product with a steam treament included.
[Edited on 12-1-2015 by feacetech]
[Edited on 12-1-2015 by feacetech]
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ChrisJ
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| Quote: Originally posted by feacetech | I would add sodium sulphite as well as your tablets. Unlike Nirtite Sulphite only scvanges oxygen, but it does a better job reacts much faster the
downside being no metal passivation.
If you can find catalysed sulphite that would be better, it increases the reaction rate signifcantly.
if you cant get catalysed sulphite i would run a reserve of 30-50 ppm sulphite. this maybe difficult to maintain in a small system testing would be
the only way to get an idea of how much to add and how fast it is consumed.
be aware sulphite will rasie tds and once you reach 2000 ppm (conductivty in uS/cm * 2/3) i would blow down and make up untill it got lower. This wont
be as bad as the TDS from the concentrated water but its good to keep it down.
Remeber if you pre boil (10-15mins) and treat your makeup before adding this will help.
I would find out from the supplier what ideal nitrite levels are, also monitor these levels.
I would consider changing treatment if you have steam side issues (corrosion, Acidic condensate, Fe in condensate) and find one with a volatile steam
treatment included. The makers of your tablets have another product with a steam treament included.
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My concern with this is the entire system breaths in and out of the house. Every time I make steam moist air gets pushed out of all of the vents,
bringing any smells with it.
Would steam side protection cause any problems with this?
Sadly, Rectorseal seems to be ignoring my second email just as well as they ignored the first.
I may have to switch to Rhomar or another company that actually provides information and support on their product.
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feacetech
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I wouldnt use steam side protection then your helath is more important than some pipes and valves
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ChrisJ
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All of the other previous stuff should be fine though correct?
Sodium sulfate, nitrite etc.
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feacetech
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Yea they are all non volatile.
Is ther any way you can stop the venting of steam and the resulting intake of atmosphere when the pressure drops?
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ChrisJ
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| Quote: Originally posted by feacetech | Yea they are all non volatile.
Is ther any way you can stop the venting of steam and the resulting intake of atmosphere when the pressure drops? |
Not so much on a single pipe system.
There are some two pipe systems that run in a vacuum, but single pipe you end up with balancing problems
This is a simplified drawing of how my system works.
Of course piping lengths are different as are radiator sizes and I have two separate mains rather than one, but this gives the overall idea of a
single pipe steam system.
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ChrisJ
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So,
Something that is really weird, at least to me, happened.
I had a 5 gallon bucket with maybe a gallon of boiler water in it. It was purple when it started but I went and looked tonight and it's blue. It's
been down there for a few weeks now.
What could cause the pH of a bucket of water sitting out in the open to drop several points? It's been cold down there and unfortunately plenty of
fresh airflow due to bad drafts. I think it's down to around 50F there now.
Did treatment settle down out of the water causing it's pH to drop, or did something else likely take place?
[Edited on 1-15-2015 by ChrisJ]
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feacetech
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possibly CO2 absorption
the idea was to boil water for 10-15mins to drive off O2
then add treatment then add water while its hot before it cools and absorbs gasses again
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